Donate: Wuz up wit dat?

[Chaos Turtle]

Errata, if any is needed...
Illusions of Grandeur comes into play, it's owner gains 20 life, when it leaves, it's owner loses 20 life.
An imperfect fix, I know. But...
No bannings required, Donate decks still work, but Illusions/Donate is a thing of the past. Delusions of Mediocrity rises to take its place, but at least they gotta do it twice.

If there's a banning, Illusions is the one to go, unless Necro really is the problem, then it's Necro. but the deck work without Necro, just not as fast.

 

[TomB]

I hate bannings and errata on principle. I think people should quit complaining about tough card combos and should instead figure out ways to beat them. If 50% of the field are playing a given deck, it's usually pretty easy to find a way to hose it.

I vote no.

TomB
CPA Member

 

[Killer Joe]

Illusions of Mediocrity (sp) and Donate, add a little Necropotence = You're Opp.is Dead.

Errata any of these cards and we'll see that whole 'combo winter' debate from last year again, don't errata it and we have a possible 'Academy' or 'High Tide' decks running amok again.

Errata or Not (please explain your vote).

[Edited by Yellowjacket (02-25-2000 at 06:24 AM).]

 

[Spiderman]

Probably errata to fix the "intent" of Illusions; I explained it all in CPA Issues forum.

But really don't know much about its effect on tourney's to make an informed decision.

 

[Wizard2000]

I think banning Dilusions would be a good idea myself. The card seems too extreme. Gain 20 life? Who thought this up? Maybe if it was 10 life then I could see its use and it wouldn't be so powerful. Oh well.

 

[theorgg]

Dune, You hit the Nail on the head.

as Pikula once said: "Ban Everything untill Necro is a god, then ban Necro" or somthing like that. most of you have heard some version of the statement.

This is the exact case. why does the deck win? It necros the cards into it's hands, then kills the opponants. backed up with six counterspells(thanks to Necro) and sitting at four to eight life, the illusions resolves. ***tech ahead*** the cip(comes into play) ability is put onto the stack.
now the trix player MUST be able to counter ALL of the enchantment destruction hurled at the Illusions of Grandeaur or die. IF the illusions leaves play before the cip ability resolves, it's leaves play ability happens before it can resolve.
only the rare one that splashes green to cast another as an instant can stop loosing.
***end tech*** If the trix(aka Necronate\Necro-donate\Illusions of Necro) deck has illusions in play, it then donates it to the opponant.

If the opponant cannot gain enough life or kill the trix player before they cannot pay the C.U, the opponant dies.

WHY ban the weak cards? if you ban illusions, it's then Thoughtlash. ban it, and it'll be somthing else.

Ban Donate, and my 18 of them fall in value.

Ban Necro, and make sure you have a great online funeral sponcered by the dojo captured on Real Vidio for one of the best cards ever printed

Sic Semper,

[Edited by theorgg (02-25-2000 at 03:56 PM).]

 

[Dune Echo]

Okay, let me ask this, would it be such a problem is someone had found a slower way to kill people with Illusions of Grandeur and Donate? You know, like Juxtapose or Legerdemain type cards? I don't think so. I think the whole problem lies with Necropotence being a combo card drawing engine. Memory Jar was banned for being a single shot. Why the hell hasn't Necro been banned?

 

[Duel]

I'm surprised Zadok hasn't chimed in about his Illusion/donate deck. It's basically the one theorgg described above. Donate is fine, it's illusions that's broken. It should be erratad to say "When it somes into play under your control..." and "When it leaves your control"

 

[theorgg]

That is bull$#*!!!
Illusions is not broken. I love the card, and hate to say it, But Necropotance is the broken card. The deck would be EXTREMLY less powerful without the BBB complement, Ironically.

I've got a deck built around Donate, http://www.brainburst.com/freesite/orggscave/decks/cigar.DEC , and it IS NOT as powerful as the combo deck.

If necro is taken out of the deck, along Possibly with demonic consultation(why the hell isn't Lim-Dul's Vault being played in theese decks???), The combo deck will wither and die to the speed of Pro's bloom.

Mark Rosewater said he had wanted Donate made as an uncommon since Ice age, and it should've seen print in Tempest. they took it out for another of his, Steal Enchantment.

Who knows WHAT he had on his mind?

another thought: why doesn't the Trix deck Donate Necropotance? Just an Idea, Zadok...

 

[Duel]

Other option, donate cursed crypt (instead of drawing from your library you draw from your graveyard). swamp, 2 rituals (or any mana, slow or not), crypt. Nesxt turn, draw ritual, island, donate crypt, watch your opponent never draw.
BTW, one of my best friends finally got the order of the phases (untap, upkeep, draw) correct after being donated a thoughtlash and drawing a tad too quickly.

 

[Gryphonclaw]

Don't ban, don't bother with eratta, just don't play cheese, and don't play against cheese, (more than one game anyway).

Isn't that what this alliance is about?

Necropotence is fine, yawgmoths bargain only a little worse. But I've played against decks that featured both of these and beaten them, so they are not that broken, just powerful. Hatred on the other hand.....

 

[Dune Echo]

Ah, yes, Gryphonclaw, that's what we're about, but every once in a while, we just need a damn good arguement!

 

[Ura]

Well, I'll admit the entire thing with the donate/Illusions combo is a pain in the ass and I really don't like the idea of errata or banning. I was and still am really against banning Dark ritual. But there is something to be said about getting a card to function as it was intended insted of how its worded. The only reason that Illusions of Granduer wasn't worded differantly is because at the time there was absolutely no way to give it to your opponent. Now with donate you have to look at it from a differant point of view. The biggest problem with the Illusion/donate combo is that you could get it out so fast with necropotence, but even then, it can be broken with a very well timed shock, disenchant, or a force of will.
If they have to get rid of something then get rid of necro, or better yet, don't get rid of anything, just release the entire banned and restricted list then start from scratch. That would be a chaotic tourny season worth watching.

 

[Gryphonclaw]

Oh definitely Ura, I think that is a dream shared by many.

The real problem here is where people use cards according to the wording only, totally forgetting the spirit of the thing.
Channel was originally designed IMHO as a green mana accelerater. When I first saw the card my thought was "cool, converting one resource into another." The very idea of channeling more than 5 or 6 life to it didn't even occur to me, except maybe for a large artifact, and even then it's not that broken.
The same goes for illusions of grandeur, it was designed to be like a clock, it granted you more life, for a limited time. The very idea of giving it to my opponent never occured to me. (Maybe I'm not cheesy enough )
And when donate came out it seemed to be more of a fun play card, never a killer. It's a pity it was twisted to the dark side.

 

[FoundationOfRancor]

indeed

 

[Duel]

I agree. I never minded Necro-trix until the necro part caught my attention. Necro is quite possibly broken. I play anti-combo, meaning FAST. I kill on turn four at every opportunity.
What do you mean by hatred? I've never had a problem with it.

 

[Gryphonclaw]

I just think that a card that allows a player to basically pay x life to reduce another players life total by x is rather powerful.

Maybe it's cause I've been killed by it one too many times. Personal idiosynchracy.

 

[Ura]

Awww, your just mad Gryphon cause I killed you too many times with raging goblins and hatreds.
But I will agree that hatred can be a pain, its just like channel-ball except slower.

 

[Istanbul]

I say no to banning Donate.
I say no to errata on Donate.

I say no to banning Illusions/Delusions.
I say YES to errata on them both, saying that the owner gains and loses the life. That's how they were originally meant to be played.

Until combo crap ends, I'll just sit here playing blue...oh, you're going to Donate that Illusions to me? I DON'T THINK SO!

 

[Dune Echo]

Again, a rant and a reiteration:

What would have happened if someone had been able to pull this off with Legerdemain or some other "trade" or "switch" card that happened later in the game and had done this a long time ago? Would people be pissed because it happened later thus giving them a chance at a kill before the combo got them? No! People are just upset because it was TOO FECKING FAST! The DCI has fixed that. How many second or third turn kills are you going to see with this combo now? No very many in Extended. How many ProsBloom/Cocoa-Pebbles kills are you going to see by turn 3 or 4? About the same as before.

SO WHY THE HELL IS EVERYONE SO DAMNED UPSET THAT ILLUSIONS/DELUSIONS CAN KILL YOU?!

It's no different than any other stinking combo-deck in Extended. Cocoa-Pebbles, gee, that got you in one turn, didn't it? ProsBloom, hmm... Deep thinking on this one! Pandeburst, Replenish, the ex-High Tide decks. Gee, they all killed just as efficiently and no one complains about the intent of a card there. Trix: It's slowed down now. If anyone pulls this off now, they deserve to win with it, just like every other combo deck out there.

The final point is that everyone that's whining needs to stop and think. Wizards isn't going to change Illusions/Delusions at all. I can remember people trying to find ways to give it to your opponent a long time ago and well, R&D finally made a card to do it with. If you don't like combo, play a deck that beats it!

And if that still tees you off, do this instead: GO CASUAL! You do have a choice whether or not to play against someone in that "format." Hell, you can make a 10 Mountain/20 Lightning Bolt deck. You won't get many people to play you, but there is no DCI in casual. You determine who, what, where, how, and when you play! STOP COMPLAINING!