Does anyone play with Waylay's errata and is MM and Nemesis on par with FE?

Discussion in 'CPA Voting Forum' started by Dune Echo, Apr 5, 2000.

  1. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Spiderman posed the following questions:

    How many people now play with Waylay, and with the errata? And since there aren't any apparent broken cards in MM and Nemesis, do people consider the sets on par with the much maligned Fallen Empires and Homelands sets?

    I don't play with the errata because the card does not have it on there and there are no rules conflicts. However, since I CAN'T explain how to work the end of turn turn trick to the few people I play with, I choose to play with Concordant Crossroads and a lot of perpetual enchantments or stuff like Ghitu War Cry.

    I think that Fallen Empires and Homelands were actually less than MM and Nemesis only because of the fact that the older sets were not as strategically interesting as the new sets. The Fading cards for instance, also, the enchantments and spells for Fallen Empires and Homelands (Thelon's Curse, Thelon's Chant, Evaporate for example) seem to me to be more hosers than general purpose, thus limiting their use. I would like to see a tournament with nothing but The Dark, Fallen Empires, Homelands, Mercadian Masques, Nemesis, and maybe Prophecy if it's not a broken set.
  2. That was the reason for the errata. If there had been a general rule change, it would have opened the door for lots of bizarre happenings.

    So, to answer your question, I play with the errata on Waylay. MM & Nemesis are better than Fallen Empires, The Dark and Homelands, but they just aren't very exciting.

    We play games for fun, right? So while I appreciate WotC engineering out the second turn combo kills, I miss the "ooh and aah" adrenaline rush of cards like Ball Lightning, Maze of Ith, pump-knights, Goblin Grenade and even Autumn Willow.

    There should be a happy medium between overpowered one-sided stroke fests and just plain boring.
  3. arhar Member

    If WOTC prints another set that is like Legends, I will swear to buy a box of EVERY new set for the rest of my life!!! Legends was PERFECT. Nemesis is trying to accomplish this too, but there's not enough sense of COOLNESS in Nemesis, and, of course, no gold cards.
  4. FoundationOfRancor The Gunslinger

    yeah! Whats up with the no gold cards thing!?
  5. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Hmm, sorry Dune, maybe I should post my questions here instead of "pondering" then out loud on the other boards. :)

    Well, I've never played with Waylay, either before 6th, during 6th before errata, and after the errata.

    I totally agree with your assessment of FE and Homelands, although I haven't played with MM or Nemesis. FE did use a lot of counters though; only the Thallids were really worth it (honestly though, I haven't given the Homarids a good enough go at it). Homelands was pretty much blah in the mechanics department.
  6. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    I have to say this one thing: Even for blue creatures, Homarids SUCK! They start out as 1/1 for 3 mana and take 2 turns to become 3/3. The only thing Homarids are good for is, if you're using a deck that makes a lot of counters that affects power/toughness, confusing the hell out of your opponent by trying to make them figure out exactly what each Homarid's power/toughness is. Jeff Donais created an evil deck just for this purpose. If anyone wants me to, I'll post it in the decks section.
  7. mogg bomber Veteran CPA Lurker

    I'm pretty sure gold cards are coming back in Invasion. An article in the new Inquest has a preveiw of upcoming sets and it says that Invasion "heralds the return of cards fans have been asking about for a long time".
  8. FoundationOfRancor The Gunslinger

    Yeah actually, I remeber reading that their comin back "big time" What ever that means...
  9. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    Gold-card lovers (like me) will be happy to know that - according to Mark Rosewater (in the current round of Question Mark) - there will be multicolored cards in the "future." They are just being "given a rest."

    Now, what I want to know is, when?
  10. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Dune: That was my first impression of the Homarids too. There's that one enchantment, High Tide? something Tide that might work with them. Also, maybe you can have a combo Spike and Homarid deck (although that defeats the purpose of a sole Homarid deck). Who knows...
  11. Rathian Cavalier with an Attitude

    Hmm.. odd. I dont have a Waylay card....

    Imho though, FE and Homelands had better thought out background storylines but less well planned cards themselves simply because at that point in time, no one worried too much about things like broken combos (though I believe cards in FE are more fun than HL). The newer sets have to keep coming up with interesting "new" effects such as fading, cycling etc., that change gameplay somewhat radically. Up to a point where its like they are running out of ideas and churning out erratas. Dont know why they dont reuse old working concepts though.

    Never played with Homarids myself. Elvish farmers and Thallid devourers were FUN. Not to mention the Hymns and pump knights.

    Side thought:
    I'm still wondering why a saproling burst makes squirrels....
  12. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    The enchantment is Tidal Influence. Trust me, in a blue deck, that card sucks too. Every fourth turn your creatures get +2/+0. Ever second turn, they get -2/-0. Whoopee! At least Sunken City's bonus doesn't fluctuate (HOW DO YOU SPELL THAT?!).

    I don't think Spikes would combo well because yes, it totally defeats the purpose, but also, you put Tide counters on Homarids, not plus or negative ones.
  13. theorgg Slob

    I'd say that MM/NM is a bit more powerful than FE/HL.

    however, the mutch maligned older sets are put togeter on a VERY solid background. the storyline and creatures were interconnected and just about everything had a mythous(usage?) sorrounding it. Honestly, the only cards that are TOTALLY useless in FE(and I DID try to play with them are the aforementioned Homarid(just the generic Homarid) and Tidal Influence. even those cards had some part of the story relating to them.

    Homelands had another strong point in the creature department--One person did most of the same type of creature. one thing that isn't as good in homlands is some of the cards seem to be a bolt out of the blue. Chain Stasis. Roots. Mammoth Harness. where did theese come from?

    both of theese sets had wonderful flavor text, too. some cards even got microtext just because of the flavor text!
    kick titting* ass!

    MM/NM has the same problem with some of the cards like Blastoderm--Awesome(but what point does it have?)
    only a few cards seem tied to the storyline like they should be.
    and they don't have anymore funguses that give saporlings. only bursts that give saporlings not squirrels or squirrelfish, like some people have perpetuated...

    *southpark reference
  14. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Umm, just to tally so far about Waylay, we have:

    One who plays without errata
    One who plays with errata
    Two who don't play with it at all
  15. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    LOL! I love how we get so easily sidetracked.

    Orgg: I totally agree with you on that. What does Saproling Cluster and Saproling Burst have to do with the story? But then again, what did Evaporate have with the story too?

    While I agree Wizards should not go overboard with "Story Cards," I feel they really add to a set to incorporate them. Awakening and Primal Rage were two examples of just phenominal "Story" cards. And I agree, FE/HL had a strong, but generalized story, it wasn't totally spelled out for you and it made you wonder about the details, which really pulled me in. But that's just me. I don't neccessarily care about about game-breaking cards. I like cool artifacts (that aren't game-killers) and even cooler creatures.

    I think Wizards has really started to cater more to the casual player than to the pros since Tempest came into being. Look at all the cards that all players can use. Horn of Plenty, the Mongers, Indentured Djinn. All the cards we're seeing now are results of Wizards trying to cater to us. They're never going to be perfect, but I'm fairly happy with the cards right now. There's very few "I HAVE TO HAVE THIS" cards. They're all relatively balanced and creature battles are back. I don't feel like complaining.
  16. Gryphonclaw New Member

    I have to agree with Dune on those two points, there are no 'chase' cards in the new sets and creature battles are assuming a greater significance, which I love.

    As for waylay, I haven't played with it yet, I know I have one somewhere, but I haven't built a deck that works with it. Other than my all instant deck with simian grunts and benalish knight, and then I didn't get a chance to use it. But I would play it using the errata.

    And when comparing the FE/HL sets to MM and NE, I'm sort of ambilvalent.
    I think that they are very similar, some crap, some decent stuff, some really good stuff. I'm not sure that this is what I like, but it's a definite improvememnt.

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