Dirty Susan

D

DÛke

Guest
I came up with this deck after my experience with CHK had deepened. My favorite Black creature at the moment is without a doubt is Seizan, Perverter of Truth. There is simply nothing like it. To me it is obvious: a 6/5 for 5 mana is nothing to laugh at; a 6/5 that gives you a free Night's Whisper every turn is even better, especially in the right context in which this highly abusive ability can go from playable, into power, into utterly insane. In addition, this filthy creature even dares to force my opponent to do the same, whether he is willing to take the challenge or not, and that is yet another advantage, though a more tricky one to abuse.

Let's face it, Seizan and Underworld dreams are made for each other. Though upon thinking, I simply find Underworld Dreams to be rather underpowered because it does not help the structure of the deck, it only compliments it: on its own, it will do very little which excludes it from this deck, at least for the time being.

What kind of deck would Seizan go into? To me, the obvious truth was simple: either a fast deck that leaves the opponent no room to fully exploit Seizan's ability and is instead faced with a 6/5 creature that sips 2 life away every turn, or a control deck that takes full advantage of the fact that I get 2 additional draws every turn, thereby having the ability to annihilate any possible threats and peace my opponent may find. I went with the control theme for few reasons, mainly because I am a control freak and like my games to be slow and systematic.

Discard is a great compliment with Seizan because it puts pressure on the opponent early in the game, and also eliminates few cards here and there later on when Seizan is giving us all free cards.

Soul Feast and Consume Spirit, like Seizan, are the heart and soul of this deck. Their power in this deck is multiplied with Seizan's presence, along with other choice cards like Night's Whisper and Plunge Into Darkness.

The picture most often than not looks like this: the opponent is harassed early in the game with Ravenous Rats, Distress, Fill with Fright, Vicious Hunger, Hideous Laughter, and even Consume Spirit if necessary. Meanwhile Night's Whisper gives me the solutions and the cards I need to set the stage for Seizan. Seizan is in play, attacks if possible, and giving me my fair share of Soul Feast and Consume Spirit cards to make sure not only that I have the life to give it, but also to declare to my opponent his or her slow death to all this life drain.

Few "odd" cards that are worth talking about are Plunge into Darkness, Kokusho the Evening Star, and finally Betrayal of Flesh. Plunge into Darkness is a "toolbox" card in this deck, as it works to get rid of a Seizan-gone-wrong, nourish my life total just enough to cast the final Soul Feast/Consume Spirit, or simply find an urgent card, which in most cases is Seizan. It can also be used to sacrifice my Kokusho, which always seems to surprise the opponent. Kokusho is in the deck for "taste" reasons; I happen to like the card a lot, though one can't help but admit that its ability fits rather nicely with the theme of life-drain. Betrayal of Flesh is also a "toolbox" card here: I only uncommonly have used it to destroy a creature; mostly its use is to bring a Kokusho or a Seizan back into play as a "surprise;" this, and still I can use it to destroy and return into play a Kokusho which maybe bogged down and is unable to attack; not to mention, attacking with a Kokusho then destroying it and bringing it back to life usually deals enough psychological damage to my opponent that he or she would just concede, which is always pretty.

In any case, here is the deck:

Land (24):
24x Swamp

Creatures (9):
4x Seizan, Perverter of Truth
4x Ravenous Rats
1x Kokusho, the Evening Star

Spells (27):
4x Night's Whisper
4x Distress
4x Hideous Laughter
4x Vicious Hunger
4x Consume Spirit
3x Soul Feast
2x Fill with Fright
1x Plunge into Darkness
1x Betrayal of Flesh

The deck is solid, though it can benefit from advice and ideas. Mainly, I am looking to try to make this deck into Extended as well, and I am sure it can benefit from something there, though I am so unfamiliar with the card selection because it is the period in which I quit that those sets were released.

Any advice, ideas, MTGO challenges, all welcome...
 
C

Captain Caveman

Guest
Nice Deck.

I really can't think of anything that would improve it other then "possibly" Coffers in the Extended version.

I'll try to look you up Online. I'm CC of course. What is your online name, sorry can't remember?

Duke? :confused:


I have several online decks but honestly I doubt it any of them are good enough to compete, but I'll try. :D I'm usually online after 3pm during the week and randomly online on some weekends.(weekdays from 3p to 4p)
 
D

DÛke

Guest
Huscar is my MTGO handle. I'm on enough to be noticed, I'll say that. :)
 
R

Reverend Love

Guest
I would suggest replacing the Relentless Rats in favor of Thief of Hope. With all the Arcane spells and Spirits you run his impact will be greater. Relentless rats are generally only effective as combo pieces or as a horde.
 
D

DÛke

Guest
Your post wasn't directed at me, I gather, and you mis-posted? :)

If it is direct at me, well...I don't know what to say. I don't have Relentless Rats in this deck, nor do I advise even the thought that they should be. As for Thief of Hope - yes, only I don't have many spirits or arcane spells to make him effective at all. In fact, all my spirits and arcane cost a lot, so by the time they're out, he is rendered useless. Still, he dies to Hideous Laughter, which really negates his use. Well, so does Ravenous Rats, but at least it can inflict some kind of pain before leaving, where as the Theif is a 2/2 that will net me 1 life, at best.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
With white and black Hondens?
The first helps to defray the cost of Seizan, the second helps to whittle down your opponent's benefit from it.
 
R

Reverend Love

Guest
Ooops. Meant Ravenous Rats. Yesterday I was a little tipsy and posting. Not a very wise combination.
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
So you thought that the slots were for Relentless Rats or you knew they were Ravenous and still think they should be removed?
 
R

Reverend Love

Guest
No, I thought they were Relentless Rats. And after actually counting the number of arcane and spirit cards he's got in the deck, I wouldn't take my own advice :)
 
D

DÛke

Guest
Tipsy, huh? :)

Well, while we're tipsy...in the beginning I did look at Thief of Hope because in the right deck (which cannot possibly exist as of yet), he can become nasty quickly. Simply put, there aren't many great Spirit and Arcane spells out there and perhaps the 2 next sets in the block will remedy this problem and fulfill the potential of a lot of the seemingly "sleeping" cards in Champions of Kamigawa. It is easier than it seems, too: instead of Fill with Fright I can benefit from Waking Nightmare, which does the same thing, though costs 1 cheaper and is Arcane. I can also benefit from Swallowing Plague, which is Arcane, and which is far superior in the long run than Vicious Hunger. Rend Flesh would be perfect, but to be honest, the card is not as great as it seems for a reason: every now and then, which is about 30% of the time, I get a nasty wanna-be Spirit deck, in which case the Rend Flesh is rather useless...

But...come to think of it...all the Spirit decks I have encountered are slow enough that Swallowing Plague can actually become effective enough to disrupt the long term plans of a Spirit deck so that Rend Flesh becomes merely a sideboard item, perhaps.

That said, the inclusion of Thief of Hope will opt for the removal of Hideous Laughter, when first looked at anyway. If anything, I despise an inconsistent deck. I despise a deck with 16 or more creatures that uses Wrath of God; I despise the same deck if it used any form of mass removal or mass harassment; in short, I despise negating my own cards, so the fight becomes either the Thief comes in for a different deck build at the cost of removing a life-saving card that is Hideous Laughter, which has destroyed hundreds and hundreds of 1/1 tokens and all those great 1 and 2 toughness creatures that exist in the current environment.

Also, I despise a deck that doesn't fully exploit a card it is using. The inclusion of Thief of Hope means in one way or another I need to exploit the Soulshift he has...not a difficult feat if I desire to make a more creature-oriented build, specifically, a more Spirit oriented one, which is needed. That said, I need not alter the style of the deck from control into a creature rush/suicide deck; the trick is to include effective, control-oriented creatures that can exploit each other, and most other cards in the deck.

From that point, the removal of Ravenous Rats for Ashen-Skin Zubera becomes not only obvious, but necessary. The Zubera provides the same chump blocker that the rats provided, a little better at that, and with the advantage of having the potential of taking out more than 1 card later on in the game, that made easier with cards like Night’s Whisper and Seizan. The obvious disadvantage we have here is that the Zubera does disrupt the opponent when it comes into play, which is necessary since in order to win the better half of the game, the early half must be controlled to the maximum. Though since we are removing a 4-costing Fill with Fright for a card that is ultimately superior in this deck, Waking Nightmare, which costs 3 mana, perhaps it will remedy the disadvantage of the Zubera, slightly.

The new potential build so far looks like this:

4x Thief of Hope
4x Ashen-Skin Zubera
4x Seizan, Perverter of Truth

4x Waking Nightmare
4x Swallowing Plague

So far, every card is either Spirit or Arcane, and still we haven’t really lost much of the original build, only slightly slowed it down, which the deck can handle.

The most interesting thing we may be doing to this deck is taking Istanbul’s advice of adding the white and black Shrines to the deck, which opens the door way to use some of White’s better cards as well. I am specifically looking at Silent-Chant Zubera and Otherworldly Journey, the first a spirit, the second an instant that can have a variety of uses in this deck. The inclusion of more Spirits will warrant a card that outshines Soul Feast: Devouring Greed, which, not to mention, is Arcane. Silent-Chant Zubera seems rather perfect as a defensive creature that can slow down a rush while even giving me life long enough to survive; this, and also one can’t deny how helpful it can be later on with Seizan, and how greatly is combines with the black Zubera and also our Thief of Hope. My rule with Devouring Greed is that I need at least 20 spirits in the deck in order to make it a great card, so we are rather close to our goal. A copy of Kokusho will do great justice here, and combines greatly with Devouring Greed; also a copy of He Who Hungers. So:

4x Thief of Hope
4x Ashen-Skin Zubera
4x Seizan, Perverter of Truth
4x Silent-Chant Zubera
1x Kokusho, the Evening Star
1x He Who Hungers

4x Waking Nightmare
4x Swallowing Plague

Now let’s discuss Otherworldly Journey. Right away, the first thing I notice is that it will remove a Seizan from the game on an opponent’s upkeep so that he loses the advantage; that, and I would get a bigger Seizan at the end of it, always a good thing. It can of course harass my opponent’s creatures here and there, if necessary, but not in such a great manner so that it is worth including. I will want to hear more about this card’s function in this deck before making decisions…so if you guys would advise me whether to include it or not, it would be great. I know it can delay a raging Ravager, something I have always had a problem with, but it will not save me from it. It can also remove any token creature from the game for good, but again, when I have seen tokens, they usually come in hordes in this environment, so removing a miserly 1/1 creature is rather poor. You tell me what needs to be done here…

It is obvious, though, that Honden of Cleansing Fire and Honden of Night’s Reach have become necessities in this deck. Like Istanbul mentioned, the white Shrine will defray the life cost of Seizan, not to mention it will help me live long enough now that the deck is slightly slower. Combined with the black Shrine, which will whittle down my opponent’s benefit from Seizan, both shrines become a force to be reckoned with. Their synergy in this deck is undeniable.

4x Thief of Hope
4x Ashen-Skin Zubera
4x Seizan, Perverter of Truth
4x Silent-Chant Zubera
1x Kokusho, the Evening Star
1x He Who Hungers

4x Waking Nightmare
4x Swallowing Plague
2x Honden of Cleansing Fire
2x Honden of Night’s Reach
3x Devouring Greed

We have 33 cards in the deck...

We have 3 slots left. The obvious card missing is Consume Spirit which is a great loss thus far as it was in many cases the kill card in this deck. In contrast, I have 18 nasty, intricate creatures in this deck that will gladly deal their own punishment should I reinforce them with Long-Forgotten Gohei. On the other hand, Soulless Revival has also become a great and interesting possibility in this deck, with Kokusho and the Zuberas being primary targets. In my head, I hear “Add another Kokusho and 2 Soulless Revival for mid-late game fun.” Though in reality it just maybe something different.

Here I need advice and criticism…on the new built as a whole, the idea, and not just the dilemma of card selection...

Meanwhile, I'll test different builds and see what works and what doesn't...
 
R

Reverend Love

Guest
I've read your post, and you pretty much summed up all my thoughts.

The synergy of spirit and arcane cards is obviously there. And WoTC is quite blatantly giving us some incredible tools to work with. However due to the limited cardpool the deck just simply isn't viable. It's cute, and contains the foundation for interesting chained effects. But the brutal efficiency and raw power required for consistent winning isn't there. Both which are required for this Spirit/Arcane theme to bootstrap it's way up. Ascending the rungs from a tier 2 casual deck, to a serious competitor.

Now a few comments on your card selection.

The use of Thief, Suzan and Swallowing plauge is excellent. The life gain offsets the pain and Suzan. Lots of chewy goodness here.

Long-Forgotten Gohei is quite possibly the sleeper card of Champions. If WoTC printed a rare card that read as the following:

3
All your creatures get +1/+1
All your non creature spells cost 1 less to play

Players would be screaming bloody murder at it's brokeness and rightfully so. If we see quality spirits, and arcane spells in the future sets. And not simply overpriced jank Gohei could really shine. Additionally it's not Legendary, so multiples can be ran without worry.

Gohei might succeed where Fluctuator, Dream Chisel and it's ilk failed.

All in all I think there's lots of potential here. Much like Affinity's initial release. The potential was there, all that was required was some decent (in Affinity's case, broken) cards to drop from WoTC and the deck would make itself.
 
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