Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by 13NoVa, Nov 5, 2004.
THIS THREAD IS LOCKED DUE TO 13NOVA'S INABILITY TO JUGGLE. IT CLEARLY STATES IN THE CPA'S RULES AND REGULATIONS THAT ALL MEMBERS MUST JUGGLE AT LEAST 6 HOURS A DAY AND SPEND $2,000 A MONTH ON RELATED JUGGLING PARAPHENILIA
That was fun.
I've been on there boards, read through their primers, posts, threads, etc. and I understand how many on there can come off like 'arrogant pricks'. There rules & regs do seem on the extreme and/or elitist side of the equation.
However, I think I understand why they operate the way they do. They treat their craft very seriously and have put substantial time and effort into creating a proper and preferred procedure for pulling as much information out of their subject as possible. They are trying to be the best players they can be, and believe in order for that to happen requires a particular amount of dedication (to both the subject and the prescribed disciplines).
But our opinion about their stance does not matter. The fact is that they are 100% entitled to set up TMD however they see fit. They've even outlined their rules & regs for the viewing of all who intend to contribute to the site. All they ridiculous? Very possibly. But you did not follow their rules & regs, then insulted a moderator. What did you think would happen?
All in all, I think it comes down to what site is a good fit for you, and it appears TMD isn't the one. Beyond that, I would recommend that sometimes you have to suck it up and follow the credo "When in Rome, do as the Romans do."
I personally like the CPA better than TMD. After all, I post here and I do not post there. I think each site has its advantages though...
At TMD, the typical response to a bad deck being posted is that it is locked by a moderator with something like "post this in the suicide black forum."
Over here, people will actually make suggestions for improving the deck and maybe four people at most would be likely to call the deck bad and they would probably do it nicely too...
That is one difference. Now I think that since we're the Casual Players Alliance, it makes sense to have a more casual approach to such matters. But TMD is definitely a tournament oriented site. Different strokes for different folks, or however that saying goes...
There are other differences too. Most of them I can really appreciate, to be honest. I sometimes wish we were as hard on conventions (spelling, grammar, punctuation) as they are. Obviously it's not going to happen though, and most of the time I am glad about that.
I'm not sure what you mean about a "masters in journalism." I could probably get a full membership over there if I really wanted to. The only journalism courses I've had were in high school.
I think the membership exam thing is pretty silly, actually...
But it's Zherbus' website. He can do what he wants. If you don't like TMD, DON'T GO TO TMD. It's pretty simple.
There are ways to be serious about what you're doing without being a jerk.
Type I is a format for anal-retentive trust-fund yuppies who mistake $ for skill. Give access to any and all cards to a CPA member, and I'd wager we'd do well enough, without having to copy a netdeck.
I have visited TMD in the past, but I frankly thought the site was boring to the point of being unreadable.
If what you say is true, they must not be looking to expand their "audience" of inbred, myopic yokels.
It's the good'ol boys club of Magic. Either your one of them, or your not.
Give it time. As Type 1 increases in popularity, and ascends from "pet" format to developing consistent tournaments with good prizes, their lock will weaken, and eventually fade into obscurity.
Here's an email I sent to a pal of mine concerning the subject.
Turns out they camouflaged one big troll post as an article and I bit.
Wrong. I joined The Mana Drain this past January. I don't even play Vintage and I've earned the respect of the community.
Although they do have inordinately high standards of excellence when it comes to the quality of posts that they allow, it is this very characteristic that makes TMD the breeding ground for thorough, intelligent discussion about Vintage Magic. If it seems that some of the insiders are held to a lighter standard, consider that they've proven in the past that they're capable of the calibre of discussion that TMD demands. Further, they continue to offer in-depth commentary in addition to any brief comments they might make.
Yes and no. I agree - they're definitely arrogant, sometimes to the point of outright poor manners - and in that regard, I am with you. I don't see their disgust with real or perceived inferiority as any grounds for the rudeness they sometimes exhibit. On the other hand, they may well be better at Magic than a great many people. If nothing else, they have a vast wealth of experience and numerous tournament victories to back up their claims of superiority. As for the quality of their ideas, maybe you're right that anybody can assemble an Oath deck. However, Meandeck and Shortbus back up their deck lists with exhaustive testing, tournament results, and discussion of the alternatives. They're not praised because they create good decks, although that's part of it. They're praised largely because of all of the ancillary material they provide with those decks.
There's nothing wrong with exclusive membership. Believe it or not, most of the good discussion occurs in the Open forum anymore. Likewise, unless something is really only relevant to the elite members of the site, it typically gets posted in the Basic User Community forum. There are ample resources at TMD for non-members. If the members of the community's upper echelon want to have a forum where they can enage in discussion only among themselves, it doesn't hurt you any. In truth, if the rest of your complaints mean anything at all, why are you even lamenting that you can't hobnob with those arrogant, hypocritical so-called masters of journalism?
One can still uphold one's standards without being a jerk.
I agree, but what is your point?
If I make a website (which I don't) and I am a jerk on my website, well, it's fully allowed. It is my website, after all. If you don't like it, boycott it or whatever. You could even go to some other website and lambast it if you really wanted to. It wouldn't accomplish anything, but you could still do it...
Sorry. I know it sucks to get frozen out, but as has been pointed out...their site, their rules, unevenly-enforced though they may be. Sure, they don't have to be jerks, but they are. I don't like the way that a certain other Magic fan site heavy-handedly moderates its forums, but I deal. So should you.
Just because you have the right to do something, doesn't make it the right thing to do.
Istanbul is stating the difference between legalism and morality. Just because the folks over at TMD are technically within their rights to be rude, such behaviour is not necessarily moral. I would like to reiterate that this is the one point made here with which I generally agree. Although I too find myself irritated with the posting habits of some of the people who feel they have a right to speak their mind at The Mana Drain, I seldom convey my irritation rudely. Certainly, you could find examples when I was also rude, but they're typically infrequent and are relatively mild incidents when compared to the behaviour of some of TMD's other members.
Saying "Just because you have the legal right to do something, doesn't make it the moral thing to do" does make sense. I'll give you that. Without the descriptive terms though, it's a bit more confusing, like saying "right is not right."
Anyway, that's not my point though...
It is still true that what one does about TMD is one's own choice.
You can decide that you are offended by it for whatever reason, and then resolve to never go there again.
Or I suppose you could also be offended, but rather than leaving, remain and antagonize the people who run the site. This could suddenly open their eyes and cause them to change their evil ways, but more realistically it would result with you being ignored or banned or something.
Another alternative would be to go there, decide that what you are reading offends you somehow, and come back for more, then post about the horrors of TMD on another website like the CPA. Whether or not the other users on that website agree with you, what are you going to accomplish by doing this? The fact that this thread exists seems to indicate that something similar is going on. Complaining about TMD on TMD might result in your being banned or whatever (I don't actually know, but it's a pretty good guess). Complaining about it here does, so far as I have seen, nothing. You would be better off creating another word association or question game type thread, as this would take up time but actually be a little fun.
Lambasting TMD on other websites will not bring the evil empire crashing to the ground by any stretch of the imagination. And some of us don't mind the site at all. I don't post there, but the serious nature and extensive user-base allows me to observe multiple opinions of knowledgable players on decks I am less than complete lord and master of. At least one user here actually posts over there (Ephraim). It is doubtful that the mods there are going to read this thread though. Even if they did, they would be inclined to disagree with most of the opinions expressed in it. I suppose they could do something immature like banning us all or insulting us on their own forums. I don't think they would do it, but if they did I wouldn't be too concerned about it. After all, you don't have a right to not be offended.
I closed the thread because 13NoVa deleted his own original post and kinda without that context, this whole thead is moot. On the other hand, there's been some good discussion and I don't want to see it lost in the aether through a flat delete of the thread, so closing was the next best thing.
Separate names with a comma.