Dear the CPA: Do something with this combo!

Discussion in 'Casual Decks/Variants/Etc' started by Rooser, Oct 21, 2004.

  1. Rooser Thread Necromancer

    I won't tell you what my friend was doing with this combo, but it certainly made my eyes bugger.

    Mesmeric Orb + Aphetto Alchemist.

    Text for those of you who don't memorize every card ever.

    Mesmeric Orb - 2
    Whenever a permanent untaps, it's owner puts the top card of their library into their graveyard.

    Aphetto Alchemist - 1U
    Wizard - 1/2
    T: Untap target artifact or creature.

    What it does is allow you to mill as much of your own deck as you want. Use the Alchemist's ability to target itself, thus you can infinitely mill yourself forever.

    By itself it does nothing, but the simplicity and cheapness of this combo means that it could find a home in a deck that was built to abuse it.

    I'm thinking now of things like Tight Sight or etc, etc. Maybe work it with a conjurer's bauble so that the bottom card of your library is a Beacon of Tomorrows, then mill your deck and take inifinite turns?

    The real problem with all of this is that you'll still mill whatever tiny library you jury rig each time you untap stuff.

    Anyway, see what you can do, guys. Let's turn this into a group project like that Bosh deck we made a year ago.

    Post your combo ideas and we'll all find a consensus on the one we like most, then refine the deck from there.
  2. Oversoul The Tentacled One




    That's just crazy. Yeah, we HAVE to do something with this.

    I'm kind of freezing in the idea department here. An Alchemist and an Orb allows you to mill away as much of your library as you want. It seems so powerful, but I can't think of what I'd do with it.

    The most obvious answer I can think of is Replenish. But that was banned in Raisin. And besides, I don't see why Replenish would work better with this than Hermit Druid or something...

    There are flashback and incarnation cards that might work with this, but I'm not all that familiar with such things, and I'm sure others are, so I'll leave it to them...

    There are also cards that take advantage of the number of cards in your graveyard. The Mist of Stagnation deck a friend of mine designed comes to mind. Actually, I should bounce this combo off of him next time I talk to him...

    There's Living Death. But I can't think of how that would combo well with this...

    Maybe Haunting Misery or Songs of the Damned would be better...

    This would clearly make Psychatog huge. But he's overused anyway. Necratog might be just as good here...

    If you could somehow get Battlefield Scrounger out, you could decide your own topdecks pretty well, which could probably lead to a loop of some sort. Is there anything better than Scrounger for this? I can't think of anything right now, but it seems like there would be...

    Also, I'm envisioning a Staxish deck for this. Either combo component works with such cards (Alchemist can untap your stuff or Orb puts more stuff in the yard for Goblin Welder). And when combined they could REALLY hurt.

    Beacon of Tomorrows definitely has potential too. Infinite turns are fun...
  3. 13NoVa The Ruins That We Hold



    yawgmoth's will
    X4 dark rit
    X2 Cabal Ritual
    5 Moxen
    1 Lotus
    1 Ancestral recall
    1 Time Walk
    1 fastbond
    4 ornithopter
    1 tendril's of agony
    2 hurkyl's recall

    That's a good start . (you can use 0cc artifact's instead of the power)

    oh and i missed congerers bauble (to get the yawg's will)

    basically you combo out until X cards are left in your deck. X is equal to the number of permanents you have in play. then you congerers the yawgs will. you untap, mill X cards, upkeep effects, draw yawg's will... combo
  4. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I think Yawgmoth's Will could be really good with Vintage cards. I steered clear of it since it's banned in Raisin and I think this thing stands a much better chance there...

    For your deck, why wait a turn? Can't you use the Bauble to put Will on the bottom of an empty library, which would then draw it and allow you to play it and win?
  5. Reverend Love New Member

    Shared Fate?
  6. Rooser Thread Necromancer

    That's too easy, Levelend Rove.

    Oh, and Ovvy, You only need one Alchemist for the milling, not two.

    What do you guys think about running a ton of utility creatures like Hapless Reasearcher and Wall of Tears and Merfolk Looter and Man-o-war etc to stall out and draw into the combo, and have the combo invlolve something that utilizes the fact that our graveyard is full of creatures?

    Option include:

    Mortal Combat
    Songs of the Damned + Drain Life
    Living Death

    EDIT: Oh yeah, and comboing this with Pyromancy/Darksteel Collossususususus has some serious potential too.

    What say you, Certified Public Accountants?
  7. Tabasco DDR Fanatic


    I definitely am thinking we need a format...

    We have Raisin, Extended, or T1...I am definitely thinking T1 is either raisin or X.

    I am thinking Black/Blue/white (splash) in Raisin!

    I think we could use Mystical and Enlightened tutors...unrestricted it Raisin to find the needed orb or bauble, and beacon if we are going that route.

    I like the idea of mortal combat, it would also work nicely with the enlightened one to search for it. I think nightscape familiar would work nicely as another creature in the deck, however we need some anti-decking in case things somehow get out of control...but that would most likely require green.

    Idk ....just throwing some random thoughts out there.
  8. Reverend Love New Member

    I found this build to be too dang fragile.

    Main Cards: 15
    4 Mesmeric Orb
    4 Norritt
    4 Aphetto Alchemist
    1 Yawgmoth’s Will
    2 Tendrils of Agony

    Spells: 16
    4 Conjuer's Bauble
    4 Dark Rituals
    1 Cabal Ritual
    1 Fabricate
    1 Tinker
    1 Demonic Tutor
    4 Careful Study

    Free Stuff: 6
    4 Urza's Bauble
    1 Lotus Petal
    1 Welding Jar

    Mana: 23
    4 Polluted Delta
    4 Underground Sea
    4 Underground River
    2 Tainted Isle
    5 Swamps
    4 Islands
  9. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Did I say two? I don't even remember that...

    Edit: Nevermind, I saw the offending remark and changed it. I don't know where I was when I wrote that. I know for a fact I was thinking of the combo with only one Alchemist in my head. Two would definitely not be as awesome. It would be like some crap with Myr Retrievers people keep trying...
  10. 13NoVa The Ruins That We Hold

    @ oversoul: You're right i don't need to wait a turn. I might just try this combo at a Vintage Tournament...

    @ Everyone else: Sorry i didn't realize this was Raisin format. I don't even know WHAT raisin is lol. anyways, why not use it with big fat creatures, living death, and beacon of tomarrows. maybe something like 4 Avatar of WOAH ****'s, 4 visera the sniper, 4 volrath's shapeshifter (keeping a fage in the graveyard as well as a wonder)

    so the creatures should be like this

    Avatar of woe
    phage (to keep in the yard)
    wonder (to keep in the yard)

    maybe even anger instead of Beacon to get the quick swing in?

    Feldon's cane to put the deck back after you go.
  11. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    "Raisin" is Oversoul's pet term for the new 1.5 format.
  12. Rooser Thread Necromancer

    Okay, it seems 13Nova has set up a splinter thread devoted to a Vintage deck. We are obviously focusing our energy on Raisin.

    The following has occured to me:

    If the combo is in play and we have conjurer's baubles out, we can mill our whole deck and then use the conjurer's bauble's to put any card in our graveyard into our hand, (it gets put on the bottom of our deck and then we draw it).

    With this model, I think we should go with 4x Kukoshu and Living Death, (This is better for multiplayer), with Mortal Combat acting as an alternate against players who have greater than 20 life.

    The only real problem is protecting the alchemist while we wait from him to lose summoning sickness. FoW probably helps, and any little utility creatures that can cover him would be good too, (Just remember never to give him protection from blue). Giving the guy haste is probably even better. Anger? Lightning Greaves?
  13. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    For protecting the Alchemist in this type of deck, there are two ways to go about it...

    The first would be to go blue heavy with Force of Will and stuff.

    The second would be to go black heavy with recursion.

    You could also add red or have Badlands or Volcanic Island (to be fetched with Onslaught fetchlands) for Anger...
  14. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Mesmeric Orb - 2
    Whenever a permanent untaps, it's owner puts the top card of their library into their graveyard.

    Aphetto Alchemist - 1U
    Wizard - 1/2
    T: Untap target artifact or creature.

    Still with the will - but also with goblin sharpshooter...

    I think you can see where I am going...

    Of course you could easily use the intruder/nest/animate combo witht he orb and forget the alchemist...
  15. Homestar Who invited this guy?

    ou couldl play like, a bunch of wizards, if u wanna stay on blue, or goblins or zombies or liek mutants, and make it practically agro, then once u get a lot in the yard, play pats bidding.
  16. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    It sounds like that would be inferior to regular aggro...
  17. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Looking back over this - the reanimation is a strong point - especially with the combo...
    But I like the machine gun effect you can get if you went red/black with the sharpshooter...
  18. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    Thread necromancy time!

    Four years after this thread died, here I am again. I was screwing around with Legacy decks, testing them and reading about some less used ones. Well, I was messing with Cephalid Breakfast when I suddenly remembered this old thread.

    For those of you who don't know, Cephalid Breakfast is a deck that uses Cephalid Illusionist and Nomads en-Kor to do, well, exactly what we were talking about with Aphetto Alchemist and Mesmeric Orb. The differences are that Cephalid version is one mana cheaper, doesn't need to worry about summoning sickness, mills three cards at a time, and requires a white mana source. So it's a basically identical but probably slightly better version of what we were doing (worse in one aspect if you don't want to run white).

    What's interesting is that they actually have something good to do after putting so many cards in the graveyard. Flashback cards. It's obvious now, but back then, I didn't use flashback cards. The original combo used Krosan Reclamation, although now we have Dread Return available, which is faster. Then Sutured Ghoul comes in (with Dragon Breath) and smashes the opponent. Simple, easy, and quite fast.
  19. zendahl gods little rage machine

    You could always use nether shadow, ashen goul, and krovikian horror. Dump 16 hastey creatures on your upkeep bring them back and swing. Rituals should help power it out and gaeas blessing to resycle the rest. Drop in a wonder to help out. just keep restocking. I don't know if it would work, this is all off the top of my head.
  20. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    I've always liked Ashen Ghoul. Krovikan Horror too, but it bounces back to your hand, which isn't necessarily useless, but wouldn't make for a quick kill.

    The rationale behind Sutured Ghoul is that it's one creature that attacks for the kill without having to include several other creatures (two Krosan Cloudscrapers or Phyrexian Dreadnoughts add up to make the Ghoul very big). Dragon Breath comes out of the graveyard for free enchanting Sutured Ghoul and giving it haste, so you swing for the win as soon as you get the Alchemist/Orb combo. I think this is the most effective kill for such a deck. Although I really just posted because I'd neglected to think about Flashback cards, which make this ruthless kill and potentially other things possible.

    But like you pointed out, there are other options, especially if you're willing to use more creatures.

    Yeah, more threats at once than a single big Ghoul (and less typical, since it seems like every reanimator deck anymore simply pumps out Sutured Ghoul for the win). And they're good before you get the combo too.

    The problem with Gaea's Blessing is that it would keep getting in your way. You want to mill creatures into your graveyard to put them on top of your Ashen Ghouls and whatnot, but Blessing keeps shuffling your whole graveyard back into your library. Even though milling yourself, once this combo is out, is not a finite resource, trying to get the creatures that you want into your graveyard would probably be highly tedious. Krosan Reclamation or even Battlefield Scrounger would probably be better in this strategy.

    Oh, and welcome back.

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