CounterBeast

[Gizmo]

Probably the best deck in Type-II

Counter-Beast
By Andy McNish (Ive had minimal input and cant claim credit)

4 Opt
4 Counterspell
4 Repulse
4 Mystic Snake
4 Fact Or Fiction
3 Bird Of Paradise
3 Wild Mongrel
3 Memory Lapse
3 Beast Attack
2 Rushing River
2 Elephant Ambush
1 Bearscape

4 Yavimaya Coast
9 Forest
10 Island

Tighter than a Tommy McTight, the town tightener from Tightsville.

SB:
4 Gainsay
3 Jungle Barrier
2 Hibernation
2 Creeping Mold
1 Rushing River
1 Beast Attack
1 Elephant Ambush
1 Bearscape

For those who`ve not heard of him, Andy designed the original CounterSliver deck way back in 1998, since then he`s sort of piddled around with wierd ideas (last tournament he played harrypotter.dec for instance) but this is the first time he`s designed a truly serious deck since then.

It probably actually IS the best deck in Type-II.

 

[Spiderman]

Since no one else is asking the question, what other decks are there in Type II and what is it's record against them (or how does it deal with them)?

 

[rkoelsch]

the bearscape seems an afterthought considering the amount of flashback creatures. I understand it works with counters and your regular creatures.

 

[RabidKimba]

I'm just wondering why there's Elephant Ambush over Call, does the instant speed really make such a difference?
Anyway, I'll make the deck on apprentice, Winter Break is a great time to test. I'm looking for possible decks for the next JSS, so keep us (me) updated Gizmo, I need a deck.

 

[Gizmo]

Call vs Ambush - count how many times this deck taps out.
Thats 0.
Count them again.
Its still 0. You almost never make a turn-2 Mongrel, its a turn 4-with-counter play more often than not. And Bearscape is a turn 12 play.
IMHO the Instant-speed is important.

Having said that three members of the team are playing this deck and I`m the only one with Elephant Ambush - the others are all running a 4th Mongrel and 2nd Bearscape. None of out versions are the exact same, we all have slightly different configurations.

And so far the record is that it wins. It went only about 50-50 vs my version of Fat Crank pre-SB but thats been the worst matchup so far, and it has a great SB for that match.

 

[Spiderman]

since I don't play Standard...

wins against what besides Fat Crank? Are they blowout wins? Are they close wins?

 

[Gizmo]

The deck usually has a straight card advantage of like 4/5 cards and also a couple of Flashback cards. It`s VERY impressive - the best Type-II deck I`ve played since Yawgmoth`s Will was banned.

 

[Spiderman]

But what decks has it gone against? It doesn't help if it's only gone against 1 or 2 decks...

 

[Gizmo]

Well I dont know the full list, 3 team members are playing this on a daily basis both online and in real life, so the range of decks met over the past month has been quite extensive.

It certainly includes:

GR Rocket Shoes
GR Fat Crank
GR Fat Crank variant
BW Arena
BW Arena/Mill
UWR Trenches
UBG SnakeDeed
URG CounterBeast
Rice Snax
URG Liquid Tempo
R Sligh
RG LD
BR Machine Head
UWB Finkula
WBU CounterArena
UB Fish
UB Counter-Scuta
WWu
WWr

We havent tested vs the Psychatog decks yet, or any Domain builds. At least, not that I know of.

Type-II is very skillful at the moment though, so those above results might have been because the good players had the UG deck and the bad players had the other deck, we`ll never really know.

 

[olwen]

When do you side in the single Beast Attack and Elephant Ambush?

 

[Gizmo]

They are dual purpose - creature removal cards and also serve as added threats if you feel your opponent has enough removal to handle what you`ve got in the maindeck (which is 6 Beasts, 4 Elephants, 4 Snakes,1 Bearscape). They are possibly extraneous, I just felt extra kill cards would be required in some control matches where you didnt need your Repulses or Rivers.

 

[Zadok001]

I'm curious about your choice to run 3x Birds. Seems like the type of card one runs four of, or none of. Reasoning?

 

[Captain Caveman]

Are the Birds important? Do you need that extra three mana
producers?

Can you run three farmhand in that slot?

Oops, Zadok bet me to it......

 

[Spiderman]

Now hopefully I've helped someone looking at Standard... my work is done

 

[Gizmo]

Birds are more vulnerable mana sources. Often you`ll never get the mana free to play them if they arent available on the first turn as the deck is very well curved. Also drawing two means they make a very attractive Fire target.

So thats what you dont play 4.

I played the deck with Lay Land or Farmhand and they both sucked. If I began with Forest/Lay then I didnt have UU on the second turn, same with Farmhand. In fact the deck is so curved that you almost never got to resolve Farmhand at all. So you`d not play Lay or Famrmhand.
Just straight 26 land then? Well maybe that would work but there are already issues with me being very colored-mana intensive and playing 3 mono-mana not 3 rainbow-mana cards would make that problem worse. You also cant run City Of Brass (I know, I tried, I burnt for a alot of damage).
In addition when you are on the drawside of the aggro matchup you can find yourself falling behind tempo if you dont get a BoP, in those matches you DO lay a BoP after the first turn often, to try to accelerate to your instant-speed blockers and Mystic Snakes.

And thats why you dont play 0.

All those are MY reasons for playing the cards.
Although youve got to remember the original decklist came from Andy McNish who is, in magic design terms, an idiot savant. He doesnt know WHY he puts that many of a card in, or why he plays it at all - he just does, and it works.

 

[Gizmo]

It should have Deflection in the SB for Rages, and we are currently wondering if we need the Wild Mongrels at all.

 

[olwen]

I tried this deck recently at a small tournament (6 players, 4 rounds). It did pretty well (4 match wins, no game losses).

However, I have trouble winning against my own quick R/G beats. Maybe the Mongrel should be in against that.

Any thoughts?

 

[Gizmo]

The deck was nigh-on unbeatable on pre-Torment T2. In Torment T2 it simply cannot control the board against the weenies and the black hand disruption.

Like Tog, this is a counterheavy deck that is a spent force in the new T2. Which is a shame.

 

[Ransac]

You said you should put Deflections in there for Rages. Why put them in at all. Rages aren't used that much any more. But, if you insist, why not Divert. Generally(in situations I've been in), when they get the mana for Rage, they use it and tap themselves out. However, if you feel that my opinion is below the average mental capacity of a ladened swallow, then don't listen to me. After all, it's just a SUGGESTION.


Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[Gizmo]

I use 4 Gainsay and 2 Deflection, my teammate uses 3 Gainsay and 3 Divert.

I like the certainty of Deflection. He might well assume I`ve got Diverts and wait for 14 mana. More than that, Deflection sorts out any other targetted threats that dont tap him out, when I cant be bothered countering or cant counter, or simply would rather hit them with it (like Prophetic Bolts).

Besides, Ive had Deflections since 1995 and Ive never used them before, so I wanted to give them a runout!