casual discard deck

R

Riva Iron-Grip

Guest
well i have made a new black discard deck. i've been playing herald a lot and he's been using green against me really bad. today in one turn i had 2 megrims out and i attacked with just 1 mindstab thrull. i did 12 damage that turn.here it is:
Lands:
16 swamps
CREATURES
4 basal thrulls
4 thrull surgeons
2 grrel mindraker
4 mindstab thrull
SPELLS/ENCHANTMENTS
4 dark rituals
4 hymn to tourach
4 dying wail
4 coercion
4 ostracize
4 megrims
2 lesharc's sigil
1 demonic tutor
1 deathgrip
1 ill-gotten gains
SIDEBOARD
2 duress
2 bereavement

it has a pretty well thought out strutcure. tell me what you think of it
 
R

rakso

Guest
Yeah, this brings back memories! I have all the black bordered alternate art versions of Mindstab (and the other) Thrull!

I have a few thoughts, though:
1) 16 swamps might not be enough. :)
2) If you have The Rack, use it instead of Megrim. Megrim is useless in this sort of deck, because you will want to cast your discard first. Megrim has only proven useful in combo decks using Memory Jar, while The Rack is the classic.
3) Greel is funny and a fitting mascot, but the classic discard creature is Hypnotic Specter. Don't make a discard deck without this non-rare! :)
4) I wouldn't advise using more than 8-12 discard cards, and Duress and Hymn to Tourach are the best commons for the first 8. For the rest, I actually advise Bottomless Pit as more permanent disruption. Think about how helpless a blue player will be if this gets out! :)
5) You might need more cards to finish off, even big boys like Sengir Vampire or Ihsan's Shade. Discard is supposed to slow an opponent down, but can't kill him.
6) I saw the Deathgrip, so you might be having problems with green. Another note about your deck is that it cannot deal with stuff already on the board, so you'll have to add things from Contagion and Diabolic Edict to rares like Powder Keg and Cursed Scroll.

If you want some funny twists, you can try splashing blue, for example, to add bounce. Imagine playing a Man O'War or Waterfront Bouncer ability on a guy's Serra Avatar, with Bottomless Pit in play. Now imagine Lobotomy. :)

Another fun theme I liked was going creatureless, with Ensnaring Bridge and Null Brooch added. That deck of mine is posted at http://www.bdominia.com/discus/articles/T1FAQlist.html.

Oh, and another classic card is Disrupting Scepter.

Enjoy!
 
S

superguy

Guest
Here are some suggestions that could improve your deck aside from what rasko already said. First of all I don't think you should run all 4 ostracizes in main deck, especially since you are using sideboard. Duresses, however, should be in the main deck, they are very good and selective. Do add more swamps/blood pets for extra mana. Also, consider persecute for both main deck and sideboard, and Perish for sideboard. Against white weenie there's that enchantment for B that says " all white creatures gain -1/-1" and it was reprinted in 6th.
Hope this helps!
 
K

krichaiushii

Guest
Rakso makes some good points, especially about the Hypnotic Specters and Megrim.

I still play with my Megrims, but often found myself waiting to have Megrim(s) in play before playing any discard (BAD idea). This wasted any advantage early discard spells could give me. My solution was to add 4 Anvils of Bogarden (rare from Visions -- artifact, 2, each player draws 2 cards and then chooses and DISCARDS a card during his draw phase). This keeps the discard going, allowing the Megrim to work far more often. It is also less random for you than the Bottomless Pit.

A card that fits the deck could be the almighty Avatar of Woe. With a discard strategy, you can quickly fill graveyards with enough creatures to allow the ACC. If forced to hardcast the Avatar, it is still a great card, and easily done with your Basal Thrulls. Along with this is the idea of playing some form of graveyard manipulation (Animate Dead, Dance of the Dead, and Reanimate all let you in ANY graveyard -- Reanimate is my preferred choice).

Consider also Ravenous Rats. They are cheap to cast and force a discard when they come into play. Not bad at all.

Another option might be Ill-Gotten Gains, which forces all players to DISCARD their hand (then pull any three cards from their graveyard to be their hand) for 2BB. Unfortunately, its rare...

As for dealing with green, try Perish and the Western (or Eastern, I forget) Paladin. In fact, Persecute might work very well against known monocolored decks.

Overall, you have not enough creature removal. If you deal with small creatures, Massacre, Engineered Plague, (maybe) Extinction, and Thrashing Wumpus are good. If it's bigger creatures that ruin your day, try targeted removal, Terror, Expunge, Diabolic Edict, etc. Wall of Souls will slow your opponent down, as well.

If your opponent empties his hand early, and keeps it empty, far too many of your cards are wasted. While a spellshaper is not a bad idea for such wasted cards, in Greel's case, it defeats the purpose.

And for the record, despite its being banned in tourney play, Windfall is the best discard card out there. I use it in my multiplayer Megrim deck. The key is to bait the Disenchants with other enchantments... ;)

That's all.
 
R

rakso

Guest
Just to clarify a comment above...

I would rather use Bottomless Pit over Anvil because the Pit is more disruptive. Anvil doesn't screw Necropotence anymore, and it just allows the opponent to filter, possibly into something that can break the lock.

Again, the point of discard is just to disrupt and slow the opponent. Deal damage with something else, and hold him down with the Pit and friends while you're at it. Kinda like letting a big blue flyer beat down while you hold a hand full of counterspells, but you just do it a little more proactively (empty his hand instead of waiting to counter his spells).

Basal Thrull might also be removed for something a little better, and I wouldn't consider it a mana producer. It's a 1-power guy for 2 mana, and you even have to tap it to sac it. Even Necrite would be more fun. :) (Well, Ravenous Rats would definitely be more effective.)
 
R

Riva Iron-Grip

Guest
well those ideas sound good. and another thing, the guys i've been playing only use green. and the other guy uses black. so i have the green stuff in there for him. and the black guy doesn;t do anything. he just sits there. so should i take out the ostacizes and put in bottomless pits? and then put some engineered plauges in?
 
N

Neo_Keo

Guest
Persecute...................... Great Card a must have though expensive but great second round card.
 
K

krichaiushii

Guest
If they are both playing monocolor decks, then run Persecutes and rock their collective worlds.

Engineered Plague is really only useful if your green opponent uses multiple versions of a single, small, creature type (such as elves). If your opponents use lots of big creatures (beasts or elementals) then use Extinction instead. Massacre might be a better choice if up against a variety of creatures (both size and type) -- or Plague Wind. ;)

There are a few black creatures that have protection from black. Minion of Leshrac comes to mind... (5/5, pro black, tap to destroy target creature or land, upkeep cost: sac a creature or Minion of Leshrac is... I forget. Destroyed, I think.)

Green's strength is the big creature rush. Wall of Souls can slow him down long enough for you to get your heavy hitters out. If the black player just sits there, find a card that does something extra painful to him, like a swampwalker (Bog Wraith and Dirtwater Wraith are both nice and fairly cheap... Dirtwater Wraith is even pumpable!)

If you are playing in a multiplayer environment, consider Unnerve and Cackling Fiend. Both affect all opponents. Though what to replace becomes a question...
 
R

rakso

Guest
If you're playing multi-player, then a disruptive strategy like discard or land destruction might not be as fun because you're stretching the cards you need against one player to cover more than one.

If you're facing green and black weenie, then you definitely need creature control like Contagion or even mass destruction like Powder Keg. Discard, unfortunately, isn't as effective against weenie decks since they'll have things in play pretty quick.

Extinction is probably worth it only when you play against something like Slivers, which is sure to have 16-20 of that creature type. I'd give something like Fevered Convulsions or No Mercy another look, since these are permanent but not so "hot" creature solutions.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Notorious Assassin. If your opponent is emptying his hand early and laying down a bunch of creatures, use those dead discard cards to pop his critters.
 
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