Bush, Kerry, eeh I still win

[Ferret]

Here is what I don't understand: We preach Democracy. We say how every country we "assist" should be Democratic, but we don't even live in a Democracy! We live in a Republic. We do not elect a President and we do not make the laws ourselves.

Instead, we try to influence "electors" that will only vote for one candidate or another and will all vote for one person no matter how many votes may have gone to the other guy. In some states this may not be so bad (the ones that are overwhelmingly toward one party or the other), but I live in Florida (or at least, that's where my permanent address is) and in 2000 almost half of us voted for Gore (not me - I voted for Nader), but when the electors cast their votes, they all voted for Bush as if to say the whole state loved Bush and wanted him in office. This year we saw the same thing w/ some other states this year. However, instead of having another recount situation, Kerry decided to concede hoping to "mend" the nations (yeah, right). But, this is just for the President, our figurehead. Everyone knows that the true power of the country goes to Congress (the opposite of Progress?).

As I said above, we do not make the laws ourselves. Instead, we elect people that we hope will represent out views in Washington and make laws that will help us. Of course, we all know this isn't the case. Both parties have their own agendas. None of them have anything to do w/ the "common" citizen (Lower, Middle, or Upper Class). They just represent their own little plans at holding onto their own power-bases...

...which makes me wonder: Is this truly a Republic, or just an Oligarchy?

-Ferret

"...crunchy-munchy food for thought..."

 

[Oversoul]

I went to my dictionary to look up the etymology of "congress" but saw something more interesting. Apparently "congress" means "sexual intercourse."

Okay, so it means some other stuff too, but still...

 

[Reverend Love]

La-Duke

I'm just wondering how someone who flies their anti-Americanism flag with pride, is now troubled that he can't convince others of America's greatness.

 

[Chaos Turtle]

I don't think DÛke is anti-American by any means, except perhaps from a neo-Conservative point of view. Those far-right-wing nutcases seems to think disagreement with the establishment is un-American, but nothing could be further from the truth.

Quite the contrary, I think DÛke -- when he is criticizing American government, its policy and society -- is as pro-American as one can be. Being anti-Establishment is absolutely not the same as being anti-American.

But I'll let him speak for himself.

 

[Ferret]

I believe that one is willing to criticize the way our country is being run and the way people are being total complacent about it, he (or she) is standing up to the very standards our Founding Fathers believed in when they formed this nation. Jefferson himself believed that a nation should have a revolution every few years just to keep it honest.

-Ferret

"...I'm talking about REAL change - not just the crap that Lefties are spewing..."

 

[Reverend Love]

If you wish simply substitute homosexual, Black, Arab or whatever minority strikes your fancy, for American. Then it might be a little more offensive to your sensibilities.

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"What's weirder is how Americans think they belong to humanity. Someone should tell them that the Zoo is over there, behind us.."

Maybe you forgot about this whole escapade, or simply view it in an entirely different context.

...sounds a little chalk full of angst and blind hatred to me.

Maybe I'm a little too hard on Duke. This is after all a f'ing internet forum where everyone is God/Genius/Righteous and is completely immune to repercussions. God bless technology.

 

[DÛke]

What about stuff like this:

DÛke:

And that is why I will not recognize any person as a human being until he or she, through conduct, proves to be worthy of his rights. And in so far, as I see, very few Americans are worthy of the rights and freedoms they posses. Very few.

Sure, throughout those links I trample over everything American, the very word "American" even...but the finale, the bottom line if you will, always returns one way or another to a grander picture: humanity.

You say you are worthy of being treated like a human? Than please, act like one. I don't care if you are American, Arabian, German, or a God. You say you deserve "this" and "that," prove it, without going to the commonly used shelter of "basic human rights."

That should not be too much to ask, provided that you live your life thoughtfully and not taking it for granted, which most people do, Americans and...westerners...most of all.

I have nothing against Americans. I have something against idiocy. It is perhaps by chance that America has plenty of idiocy and idiots. That should not be a revelation...

And...thanks Chaos Turtle dear...

 

[Oversoul]

Originally posted by DÛke
I don't care if you are American, Arabian, German, or a God.

Probably wouldn't have to worry about it if you were that last one, no?

 

[DÛke]

...Well, Gods too need humanity: think of it this way - would there be a such thing as a "god" if there wasn't someone else to recognize the "fact"? And who would recognize the fact if not something inferior...hmmm...say...something like a human?

God and godliness are more like beliefs, states of mind, than beings.

So yes, Gods would need to worry about it too, in a different way than human would, of course.

 

[Reverend Love]

Sure, throughout those links I trample over everything American, the very word "American" even...but the finale, the bottom line if you will, always returns one way or another to a grander picture: humanity.

Dude that's a crock. That's like saying I smoked dope and drank my brains out not because I liked getting loaded, no but because I was breaking down barriers in my mind. Searching for "truth". Whatever Duke... Something in the real world strikes your match, then you trollop off to the forums to troll and throw tantrums.

You say you are worthy of being treated like a human? Than please, act like one. I don't care if you are American, Arabian, German, or a God. You say you deserve "this" and "that," prove it, without going to the commonly used shelter of "basic human rights."

Who cares? Unless you've earned your position of authority or respect,, no one needs to prove diddily to you. Or anyone for that matter. I understand what your saying by bestowing the title "Human", on utter scum who isn't above the sole of your boot, and in turn tarnishing that which is grand. But to actually think people require you, or any other insignificant’s approval, is quite ridiculous.

I have nothing against Americans. I have something against idiocy. It is perhaps by chance that America has plenty of idiocy and idiots. That should not be a revelation...

Making broad degrading statements concerning a people, ethnicity, or religion only paints you as an ignorant coward. Granted, we all grab hold of the brush to paint a particular sect the same color stupid every now and then. But you seem particularly susceptible to this weakness.

 

[DÛke]

Unless you've earned your position of authority or respect,, no one needs to prove diddily to you...

I'm not saying that something should be proven to me. But in any case. If not so unimportant, if I am such a regular person, than "proving" something to me should be a lot easier, no?

Nevertheless, proving something to me was never the point. The point is proving something to someone, anyone, even if it is yourself. Go look in the mirror. Look carefully. And ask yourself this question: "why do I call myself 'human'? why do I deserve the rights I have today?"

You say I have earned no position to demand answers from you or anyone, but I ask you this: have you earned your position to deny my mere questions? That is, have you earned your right to have a "free will" which you can opt to thwart this, dodge that, deny one thing and affirm another, all based on your judgement? Have you earned the right to make judgements, or was such a grand power (and believe me, it is a grand power) simply given to and you happen to have picked up, with the waves of cattle that are willing to pick up anything that is given to them "free of charge," as long as it is related to "free will"?

You tell me.

 

[Oversoul]

If you don't already have free will, how could earn free will?

 

[Ferret]

Originally posted by Oversoul
If you don't already have free will, how could earn free will?

Good question: It usually starts w/ saying one word: "Why?" After that it becomes easy because you'll keep questioning everything. The people that fall back on sill concepts like "faith" have more or less shut off their humanity. They've become sheep... In this world, there are no true Truths (does that make sense?) - there are only popular opinions that people accept w/o taking the time to think it through.

This is how you get a country of polarized idiots like Republicans and Democrats (hey! we're back on topic!) that follow popular ideas created by two or three people. At that point, the rest of life becomes easy because you don't have to worry about thinking anymore.

-Ferret

"I've been saying it for over 13 years: Find Your Own Truth!"

 

[Killer Joe]

So, "Intelligent Design" isn't true?

Yeah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think.

I'm going to church this Sunday anyways.

 

[Oversoul]

Well, it would still require some amount of will to ask "why?" (by my understanding of the word at least).

 

[Chaos Turtle]

Originally posted by Reverend Love
[quoting DÛke:]"What's weirder is how Americans think they belong to humanity. Someone should tell them that the Zoo is over there, behind us.."

Maybe you forgot about this whole escapade, or simply view it in an entirely different context.

Oh, you were talking about thepast... I didn't realize, what with your use of present-tense verbs and all. When you said he "flies" his "anti-Americanism flag" I thought you were referring to stament made more recently than...oh, say, sixteen months or so ago... My bad.

Yes, obviously I view it in a different context.

Here's something you need to understand about the existentialist mindset (not that I'm by any means trying to label DÛke, or myself for that matter; I speak only for me):

To question or, more to the point, to criticize reality -- whether it is the reality of society, of government, of human nature, or even the reality of reality -- is not to deny it necessarily, but to confirm it, if it is indeed confirmable.

 

[DÛke]

Most of the time I metion "free will," I mention it enclosed within strongly cautionary quotation marks. You might guess as to the reason behind such a...choice...of mine.

How can "free will" be earned if it is not already possesed? Perhaps this question should be replaced with one that is at once simpler and yet more necessary: is there a such thing as free will?

From what I have experienced, my answer, for today, will have to be no. Though this "no" does not mean that there is no willing. We will; we will everyday and will always will. Whether we believe this or not, argue for or against, we "choose" what happens to us on daily basis. We choose to get up at so and so hour to go to this or that place so as to accomplish whatever. That, however, does not conclude by any means that there is free will, or, more importantly, that it is I who is willing, who is responsible for the reason behind my willing.

I will. Yes. But I don't will freely. Every instance of "willing" is an instance of a physiological, internal reaction, and is far from being the cause in itself, much less, the cause that "I" intitate. We will because we have to will: that must be made clear. We are enslaved to willing, because there is no other way for us. We are the slaves of willingness, and it is not our willingness! We do not choose, we in most instance obey, and the carrying out of such a task has been misunderstood as the carrying out of our willingness, when it is something far more primordial, deeper, instinctive, beastile that actually "wills."

The poor animal desires, needs, and strives; in the process he obeys many forces, most of which he now believes to be the "self," the "I," or even the "soul"...

...in truth, the chaos of our nature, of our disorderly, shadowy "will," and its utter unfreedom and yet simplicity and union with what we need as beings, is astounding enough to make onlookers and also weaklings, the common man if you will, easily believe that the source of "will" is he himself...

...psychological understanding of the "self" at large can be done away with by one easy question: what is it exactly this "self" that you call "yours"? Of course this question has been asked and supposedly answered, in so many colorful and awe-inspiring ways, though never satisfactorily, always half-seriously and...half-enigmatically. Which...at the end...puts the whole "science of the soul" to utter shame, and theories regarding our existence as social (or non-social) animals, and any theories for that matter, regarding who we "are," become even more theoritical and...also...theatrical and laughable in nature...

 

[Oversoul]

Okay. I get it now.

 

[Reverend Love]

Chaos
Ok.

 

[dw51688]

Bah. Guess who? I've been really busy lately, mainly election-related stuff. Heh, all is well here in liberal Massachusetts. Someone once told me that being a Republican here is like being a Yankees fan. Well, I campaigned for President Bush. Since Kerry was destined to swing this state, I travelled to New Hampshire every week to try and get swing voters to vote Bush (bummer Kerry won). It was tough, both my parents are staunch Democrats and I fought with them nearly every night. All teachers, and most students here are ignorant liberals. 2 teachers have decided to call me racist because I vehemently oppose affirmative action. When I proceeded to point out that this entire "New England Secession Movement" is ludicrous and that they were tearing America apart by being Anti-American, they decided to name me "Little Joe McCarthy" (a man whom I really actually admire). Heh, when I founded the Young Republican's Club, we had students picket and protest outside the door during our first meeting. Sure Bush isn't exactly conservative, but I would sure as hell prefer him over Kerry anyday! The depressing part is that I feel like the Republican Party is drifting further and further towards the left to the point where it is almost a lighter shade of the Democrat Party! I just hope that we will run a candidate who will hold true to the ideals of the Republican Party and conservatism (it probably won't happen in 2008 as McCain and Giuliani, the favored candidates, are both big spenders / big government advocates). Maybe 2012... I just hope President Bush will have a strong second term (seeing as he has the potential to do great things with a majority in the House and Senate). Cheers.