Black Lotus and the Ancients

N

NeuroDeus

Guest
Ok, Imagine this scene :-

At last in you local store the first boxes of 7th Edition have arrived. Of course you are the first to grab up 5 boosters and order a box with you storekeeper. You rip open your first booster and you find the recognisable commons and uncommons and a Sibilant Spirit as a rare. Now you go to your second booster and rip it open. You stop to see some new cool artwork of the uncommon card you have just found and move on to the rare...

You heart suddenly ceases to beat. Fever starts to build up. What you got in you hand is a Black Lotus...

Stop the scene...

So what would happen if really this card goes out again? What would be the effects and what would happen to the so famed $500 card?
 
P

Purple_jester

Guest
For one thing, the price would drop. Drastically. Then, it would get the honor of being the first card to be banned BEFORE the set becomes Type 2 legal. :D
 
D

Darsh

Guest
Then every magic collector in the world would kill WOTC.

Good thing I don't play type 2, I can just make fun of all the losers that can't use it.:)
 
H

Hetemti

Guest
Real Black Lotii would not drop in price. They are simply too rare. An original Black Lotus is no less rare, but people would be able to play T1 without spending hundreds on a single piece of cardboard. COLECTORS would not be affected, pirates who want to make obscene profits will be hurt. Poor babies.

It wouldn't need to be banned from T2. Restricted...maybe. But there aren't that many broken cards, and were it still here, with all the multicolor, they'd just splash black for Ritual. T2 is going to be slow, Lotii will simply be another Masticore or Morphling.
 
M

Melkor

Well-known member
Of course price would go down, the only question is by how much. Demand would go down simply because their is a cheaper substitute, but one has to wonder if the price would actually go down very much because since the Lotus is such a high end card in the first place, the pool of people who would buy such a card are already restricted to either the ardent collector, or people with cash to burn. Now some would argue that these two groups would still want to have the originals and that the decrease in value would be minimal, others would say that lower demand overall would drive the price way down, hard to know when you don't have any real stats on these things.

Of course if this happened to me, I would be very happen with my new Black Lotus and since I don't have much money to spend on Magic, and am thus not a collector, I could care less about the decrease in price. It might hurt Magic stores, but seriously, how many stores do a lot of business with such expensive pieces of cardboard?

Sort of unrelated question, has WotC ever stated why they just ban cards in the Extended and Type 2 formats and not restrict them?
 
A

Apollo

Guest
Well, the price will definitely go down, and by quite a bit. Who would buy a $500 card when you could buy a $15 card for the same price. The only difference is that the original has a black border. Heck, if you care that much, buy a $.50 Sharpie and color it in.:rolleyes: The only people that would have a reason to buy it are collectors who want the original. But since the price has gone down (type 1 players don't need the original anymore), collectors have less reason to buy it, so the price goes down even more.

Of course collectors would be affected. The idea that they wouldn't is ridiculous. Suppose they just bought a card for $500, and suddenly it's maybe $100. They'd quit, sue WotC for violation of their reprint policy (don't scoff; think of Mcdonald's coffee/pickles), and maybe burn down WotC headquarters for good measure.

And you bet Lotus would be banned. It completely breaks type II. Have you ever played against the thing in the hands of someone that knows how to use it? If you want 4 of them in every deck, I doubt it.

Melkor, there was a big discussion on the ban/restrict issue either in the CPA Issues or Voting Forum (I can't remember, sorry). We don't want to get into it here, because it'll ruin this whole thread.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Honestly, I'd start playing with ways to get rid of EVERY SINGLE KIND of permanent in every deck. Cheap ways. Like, one-mana ways. Because a Black Lotus is a horrible thing. Picture these:

First turn: Forest, Black Lotus, Dawnstrider, River Boa
or
First turn: Swamp, Black Lotus, Tsabo's Assassin
or
First turn: Plains, Black Lotus, Crusade, Crusade
or
First turn: Mountain, Black Lotus, Rogue Kavu, Maniacal Rage
or
First turn: Island, Black Lotus, Ribbon Snake, Seal of Removal

All Type II, all nightmarish first-turn scenarios (ranging from infinite fog with a 2/1 regenerating islandwalker to a creature lock to a massive attacker).

Nevermind what Extended would do with it...I shudder to think.
 
D

DÛke

Guest
Well, the original Black Lotus would NEVER drop in price if such thing is to happen, which it will never.

If I get a Black Lotus in a store, I would sell it as soon as possible, since I know that it would get banned, resulting in uselessness, but some people are very interested, and they'd buy it right off.
I would sell it and buy me real cards that I could play with in T2, or atleast buy myself 'fun' cards.

Basically, I wouldn't care if there should be any Black Lotuses anywhere, but I would love to see Serra Angel back in the editions. THAT, I would respect.
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Bannings vs Restrictings

The decision to stop having a restricted list and ban all cards on it was made in order to make the game more skillful. Having cards that were significantly overpowered but were still allowed to be used led to a situation where the game could turn on the drawing of a single card. You could, for instance, have completely obliterated your opponent, he has no creatures, no hand, little land, and you are smashing him with overwhelming force. He tops Balance. Fun.

Removing restricted cards made the game more even and allowed skill to become more of a factor in deciding who wins games.

Also, they were having trouble getting Magic classified as non-gambling because authorities said the element of luck involved was too great as whoever drew a restricted card won. But that was only a minor consideration I think.
 
N

NeuroDeus

Guest
Well, since I already mentioned the Black Lotus, I will mention the Ancients (the nickname of the power cards no longer printed).

So what if Shivan Dragon was reprinted? (WoTC has been lately stressing on reprinting some old power cards like Ernie). Or Juzam? Or even Ali from Cairo?
 
V

Volradon

Guest
I think the Shivan dragon will be reprinted and even ali from cairo might but the Juzam migh be a little to powerful as the expansions get slower. Also, i think there should be a restricted to two list for cards which are not THAT powerfull but could still be extremely good.
 
H

Hetemti

Guest
Shivan Dragon: She'll be back. Two-Headed is the same-but-different reprint. Good, but not game breaking. I have no clue why they cut Shivi or the Whelp.

Ali from Cairo: Oh no! Not the original Walkin' Worship! Ahh! Ph33r! Oh, wait. My Apprentice says LOSE 1 life.

Juzam: Second turn with a ritual...what can stop Juzam turn three after sickness wears off...

Blastoderm... <Critical Hit! It's not very effective!>

...not much else. Least not turn three.

Then again...Black and Green are all about unfail beatsticks. If red had some burn, it'd be fair, since White'll shakle it's a$$ and blue will 86'em.
 
D

DÛke

Guest
...what can stop Juzam on turn 3? White.
Nightwind Glider, a creature with Cho-Manno's Blessing, Arrest, and the less: Pacificm. Plenty.
The still wouldn't reprint it, because only White can REALLY deal with it early in the game.
If they reprint it, they would have to ban Dark Ritual in T2, and I'm sorry, but I favor Dark Ritual OVER Juzam in T2.
 
N

NeuroDeus

Guest
I have to admit I am a fairly new player and the thing I hate most is this slowing down of the game process. I never seen the likes of Shivan Dragon and Lightning bolt or even a White Knight. All I have to do is get loads of money and hope god I find god places to buy them and also that the DO arrive home. Living on a go**amn island in the middle of Medi Sea is sometimes a f**k*n* bore. 2 Shops...that's all...the others sell Action Man and Barbie Dolls...
 
D

dw51688

Guest
I know. I started playing in like January. You don't need money. Just buy some boosters and hope you get a good card and branch off that. Like I branched off a foil rishadan port. That's 50 bucks right there.
 
H

Hetemti

Guest
I just said White could shackle or pacify (and pro-black) and all. Did you not read the whole post? Guess you wet yourself halfway through it and decided to ingnore the rest. What? Did you think I keyed all that extra stuff for my health? Jesus Christ! Lend me a hand! Help me come up with more interesting responces. Obviously what I'm saying now isn't good enough to be read.

Since noöne will have read this far into it, anyway, I'd like to not that RED is the only color w/o turn 3 Juzam Defence.

White: Pro-Black, Paci, Shackles, &c.
Blue: Bouncer, SealORemoval, Kunterspiel.
Black: Chillin' App, its own Djinn.
Green: Blastoderm, Critter+GG or WM or Invig...
Red: Squee? no...ah! Monn's Goblin Raiders+Shoch+Seal of Fire! Yeah!

Of couse, noöne will still be reading this by this point, so...Gooseïö sucks!
 
A

Apollo

Guest
To Hetemti + DUke: yes, there are things that can stop it. However, those are cards that are not normally played otherwise. If people have to make large changes in their deck just to deal with one specific card, then it's a sign that card is too good.

Take, for example, Trix. There were cards that could stop it. However, everyone knows it was too good of a deck (it defined the environment).

Just cause there are cards that can deal with it, it doesn't mean it's not broken.
 
T

terzarima

Guest
Man, Juzam Djinn would not be a bad reprint, because come on, anything can stop it! You could get out a green 1/1 an pump it up with two giant growths to kill it, you could use Lightbringer, you could arrest it like some one else said. Juzam Djiin like every card is vulnerable, so I doj't really see why they wouldn't (exept of course everyone would egg WOTC buildings across the country) There are some old cards that could be reprinted (exept the moxes may god rest their sould) because of newer cards that are more powerful and others which can kill those old cards. So I think everyone should think twice and VOTE JUZAM
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Go, Camouflage!
Go, Invisibility!
Go, Dwarven Demolition Team!
Go, Demonic Hordes!
Go, Blaze of Glory!

On, Piety!
On, Whirling Dervish!
On, Old Man of the Sea!
On, Ydwen Efreet!
On, Oubliette!

Hurrah, Phyrexian Gremlins!
Hurrah, Artifact Blast!
Hurrah, Drafna's Restoration!
Hurrah, Gaea's Avenger!
Hurrah, Argivian Archaeologist!

Yay, Clergy of the Holy Nimbus!
Yay, Arboria!
Yay, Venarian Gold!
Yay, Gravity Sphere!
Yay, Darkness!

Yeah, Fasting!
Yeah, Gaea's Touch!
Yeah, Flood!
Yeah, Sisters of the Flame!
Yeah, Eater of the Dead!

There are so many old cards that can/should be reprinted, there's no need to go digging into Power 9.
 
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