Back in Black/blue

G

galtwish

Guest
2 Wash Out
4 Fact of Fiction
4 Undermine
4 Prohibit
4 Counterspell
2 Perish
3 Vicious Hunger
3 Vendetta
2 Snuff Out
2 Air Elemental
4 Thrashing Wumpus
2 Drake Skull Cameo
2 Sky Diamond
4 Salt Marsh
4 Underground River
6 Island
8 Swamp


With Green so prominent, Perish and Wash Out should be pretty good. Oh yeah, I'm back; I got a new job that has taken up almost all my time. As always, all input is appreciated.

Erik
 
M

Mars

Guest
I played in States with a similar build and it was just horrible vs PyreZombie/Hammer and NetherGo. I'm still tuning however....

4 Cremates in the side are absolutely necessary to defeat those decks I mentioned above. However, you have to draw them, so you need a wee bit more acceleration IMO. 1 Soothsaying, 3 Fact or Fiction and 4 Accumulated Knowledge might be better.

Since Vendetta and Snuff Out are worthless vs Zombie and Spirit (unless you pack Distorting Lens), but good against everything else, I say side them too. 4 Massacre for white, and maybe a Rebel Informer. And maybe not.

I'm glad to see you haven't included the Recoil/Lobotomy combo, which is good, because even though I used those and they helped beat Waters/CounterWrath, they weren't that hot vs the other decks I mentioned.

You only have 6 creatures plus Undermines to do damage, which frightens me thanks to the currently strong presence of Parallax Wave. The Diamonds and Cameos are nice, but I have to free up space to add more creatures, relying moreso than you on acceleration and Rits.

Washout is wonderful but also a luxury. I'm of two minds about that card, and will reserve judgement for now.

Counterspells, Undermine, you bet. Prohibit is good, but not great. Perish I would never maindeck without Vamp Tutor.

I didn't play Dark Rituals, and now wish I had. They can bring out a Wumpus or Elemental early, which are two great cards, by the way.

Urborg Drake is terrible, just terrible. It's like a drunk that has to attack each turn, then it falls down when Nether Spirit attacks you. I know this from personal experience and wish I'd packed either Ribbon Snake or Drake Hatchling. Those two cards fly as well, and have a toughness>2, so you can Wump for two and they live. They can keep Nether Spirit at bay, and will draw out counterspells and Urza's Rage giving you a chance to have Wumpus or Elemental stay. I'm not a fan of either one of them, but they work, and they're ten times better than Drake, which is great vs most U/W and that's about it. I also had Unmask the Incredible Card but I have to take that out too since I'm mostly going Blue:

3 Air Elemental
4 Thrashing Wumpus
4 Drake Hatchling
4 Ribbon Snake

4 Undermine
4 Counterspell

4 Dark Ritual
4 Accumulated Knowledge
3 Fact or Fiction
1 Soothsaying

2 Lobotomy

Sideboard
4 Cremate
4 Massacre
4 Perish
3 Vendetta

4 Salt Marsh....so good in this slower environment
4 Underground River
10 Island
5 Swamp

That's just a start and that's my two cents. I really like designing for these colors, Erik, it's such a challenge.
 
R

Ristik

Guest
I'm going to give you the same advice I've given any other blue deck: RUN OPT. If you have to choose between knowledge and opt, go opt. If you can run both, do it. but Run Opt. It is an amazing card. Also, even without the combo, I'd run Recoils. They work very well for me.
 
M

Mars

Guest
I think I'd prefer Brainstorm over Opt any day of the week, and tell us why not if you disagree, Ristik.

I also think 8 card drawing cards (or 7 + Soothsaying) is the most I'd want to put in a deck.
I had a lot of success with the 3 Brainstorm/4 Acc Knowledge engine in the last T2.

My current enemy deck is NetherGo. They have Accumulated Knowledge too, so wait for them to play it first. They also have Vamp Tutor and FoF and counters galore. They may love you to play Recoil (which they also play, and it works there) to get their Nether Spirit into the graveyard.

I like Recoil very much, it's just fantastic against certain decks and combos nicely with Lobotomy, but I can't make room for it main or side, as I can't for Brainstorm or Opt either.
 
R

Ristik

Guest
I used Brainstorm ever since Impulse left the environment, and I hated it because I usually onyl needed one of the three and knew that I would then draw two useless cards. With Opt, I do not draw useless cards often. I can see one, and if I like it, I take it. If I don't, I won't see it again. If I could have Portent or Impulse back, I would. But since I can't, Opt is a close third.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
I have a U/B deck, and Stalking Assassin keeps being a MVP.

"I'll tap your creature at the end of your turn."
"During my turn, I'll destroy it."
 
N

Neil Rigby

Guest
Just a note on ristiks comment about having to draw useless cards from his brainstorms, Dont put useless cards in your deck!
I think the best card draw option is FoF and Acc Knowledge.
I prefer Mars' second take on the deck but don't see the need for Dark Ritual as the deck is mostly blue, and the black spells your are casting mostly only require B to use, the ones needing BB are the wumpuses which aren't at there best if ritualled(is that a word) out with only one black source. I think that the slots they take up would be better used on some main deck removal or possibly cremates, seeing as recursion spells are popular. This would also free up some sideboard slots for other options, such as chill, misdirection, or some anti blue spells.
Just my thoughts and by no means what should happen
 
M

Mars

Guest
Thanks, Neil for commenting and not mentioning that one of the problems with the deck is that it contains swamps, since as you've said:

Good color = Blue
Bad color = Anything else

1) Dark Rits were indeed my 56th to 60th card choices. They also help in bringing out early Air Elementals as well as Wumpi, or Lobotomy, or Fact or Fiction, or even Drake Hatchling while taking a point of burn (if you're desparate).

2) Still, main deck Cremates? I feel they're best as a sideboard card for now, IMHO.

3) Vendetta is very powerful and may replace the Rits if playtesting reveals that Rits aren't good. Vendetta works nicely on Birds, Elves and Trees.

4) What about Seal of Removal? Has some utility, I've heard. :)

5) Yup, Chills and Misdirections are cool in the side. Must playtest and see.

6) One thing about Opt that makes it incredible is the way it combos with Tutors. Still, I don't want to play either for now.

7) Is Neil the only one who posts here who's qualified for Worlds? We can only get better from your posts, Neil keep replying.

OK, that's it....I'm off to break Overburden in mono-blue, if I can or if such a thing is humanly possible.
 
M

Mars

Guest
Of the 36 States/Whatever decks listed at WotC's Sideboard, here is the one NON-NetherGo U/B deck that won its States this year (along with the four U/B NetherGo U/B decks, one in Texas sporting Red).

Please read, think, and comment. Thanks.


NORTH CAROLINA - Ken Nowell

4 Stupor
2 Lobotomy
3 Abyssal Specter
4 Vodalian Zombie
4 Recoil
4 Chimeric Idol
3 Probe
4 Dark Ritual
3 Plague Spitter

1 Yawgmoth's Agenda
3 Thrashing Wumpus
1 Tsabo's Decree
4 Salt Marsh
4 Underground River
1 Dust Bowl
8 Swamp
7 Island

Sideboard:
2 Tsabo's Decree
1 Teferi's Response
1 Misdirection
1 Cremate
2 Massacre
1 Vendetta
4 Perish
3 Chill
 
P

Purple_jester

Guest
Six sources of on-board weenie control. This guy hates elves and birds.

Lots of discard. No counters. The discard probably works much better against Nether-Go. If he can get two Spirits in the grave, then there's no chance of 1 coming back unless his opponent was also packing Creamte. The Recoil-Lobotomy Combo seems to work in that direction as well.

Chimeric idols, probably to frustrate those Wrath of God players... Immune to board-clearing Wumpi, too. And the 4 Zombies seem directed specifically against Green.

Fascinating. At a glance, it looks like a blue-black hodge-podge, but apparently, it works.

BTW, just curious. For all you guys out there who played in States. How prevalent was the use of Rishadan Port?

[Edited by Purple_jester on 11-10-00 at 05:01 PM]
 
M

Mars

Guest
Port was everywhere (especially in R/G Fires and G/W), so were sided Tsabo's Webs

KANSAS (24 participants) - David A Green

Main Deck:
4 Chilling Apparition
4 Undermine
1 Yawgmoth's Agenda
3 Boomerang
4 Fact or Fiction
4 Counterspell
4 Addle
3 Recoil
3 Wash Out

2 Abyssal Specter
2 Lobotomy
1 Bargaining Table
1 Avatar of Will
7 Swamp
9 Island
4 Salt Marsh
4 Underground River

Sideboard:
4 Perish
3 Chill
3 Cremate
2 Misdirection
3 Dread of Night
 
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