Are Democrats getting help from the Tea party?

Killer Joe

New member
I was wondering if Tea Party candidates are starting to win over the Established Republican politicians then are they, in a way, giving the November election to Democrats?

It seems to me that in a general election Tea party candidates might seem too extreme when compared to Democrats.

Don't get me wrong, Democrats ought to lose lots of seats in November because of trying to be bi-partisan; they have, in a way, cut their own throats. You can't have your cake and eat it too. The Democrats are going to lose BUT! Now that Tea Party candidates are winning primaries; recently notablely Delware saw Christine O'Donnell beat longtime established Republican Mike Castle. Karl Rove even is saying it's not good for the RNC.

Tea for two anyone?
 

turgy22

Nothing Special
Ask me again in November if you want an accurate answer.

Chances are that a few tea party candidates will make it easier for moderate democrats to get elected, but some of them have a great chance to actually win, which could be a big boon to the republican party. Right now, a lot of people are tired of DC politics (yeah I know, you could say this any time) and the tea party folks are definitely infusing some excitement into the process. The fact that they're all running on republican tickets means that those are the voters who are getting fired up and will be more likely to head to the polls, while the democrats will be presenting a lot of "politics as usual" candidates that largely induce apathy in voters.

Honestly, I'm going to be rooting hard for a few of these tea party candidates to win some elections, because I'd like to see if they're actually going to back up their rhetoric with action. Getting elected is one thing. But if they really believe that the federal government should have less power, the best way to start is by getting in office and rejecting all the federal money that's constantly allotted to different states. I personally don't trust any of these tea party folks to actually do that and I have a feeling, once elected, they'll just step into party lines, asking for federal handouts while blaming Washington for high taxes. It would be refreshing if they proved me wrong, though.
 
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train

Guest
I actually think it will strengthen/increase R wins... Many R candidates will begin paying attention and shifting towards more Tea Party initiatives, and I think increase their chances.

I don't think the D party is getting any help - but I think it definitely brings a false hope. "The R party is splitting, so we have a better chance!" But when all is said and done - the R party still has their nominee - and they are all fired up...
 

Mooseman

Isengar Tussle
I think that some R's who don't like the TP candidates will be disheartened and not vote.... Not all R's are happy about the TP winning some seats and may even try to make sure they lose, to prove that most TP candidates can't win in the general election.
I also think that the extremism of the TP candidates may energize the Dems to make sure they don't win....

Or I could be totally wrong.

But some of those TP candidates are nuts......
 

Killer Joe

New member
Tea Party candidates who are REALLY about smaller government and less taxes are okay with me because that's the nature of the GOP, it's those MORALITY nutties that scare me,....Rand Paul anyone?
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
I guess I repeated KJ's action from earlier, because I was sure I made a post in this thread, but I don't see it now. Something about that joke that the Tea Party has an anti-masturbation candidate in Delaware and a pro-bestiality candidate in New York.
 
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train

Guest
Something about that joke that the Tea Party has an anti-masturbation candidate in Delaware and a pro-bestiality candidate in New York.
If its not a crime in the books - is it wrong? Maybe those are the votes to swing everything their way, and they have to publicly announce their position to get the votes...

Its all about the votes...

Yeah, votes...

:rolleyes:
 

turgy22

Nothing Special
the Tea Party has an anti-masturbation candidate in Delaware and a pro-bestiality candidate in New York.
Is this true? I would think the intuitive positions would be pro-masturbation and anti-bestiality. Maybe that's just me, though.:confused:
 
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EricBess

Guest
IMO, the problem isn't the tea party itself, but the fact that there are a lot of people trying to use the tea party as a vehicle. Any candidate that truely wants to reduce the size of government is okay in my book, but I think there are plenty who are just riding the tea party as a means to an end.
 

Killer Joe

New member
I agree with that statement EB (vehicle).

As for reducing government I always wondered what that actually meant? The local government takes my trash, do I want that reduced? The government puts up those stupid traffic signs, do THOSE got-to-go?

Maybe it's the "wasteful spending" things that have to go,.......just not sure if wasteful means the same to me as it does to others. Giving tax breaks to the wealthy? doesn't benefit me so THAT's wasteful.
 
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DarthFerret

Guest
IMO less government means less "Mandated" control. Yes, I guess it is nice for your city government (assuming) to take out your trash, but you still pay for it. Should it be a law that you have to use thier service? Same with healthcare. Do not force a person to get it. To me, it is when the govenrment (fed, state or local) get involved in a single person's personal life. That is too much government control. Protecting the masses yes, protecting an individual from his own stupidity, no.
 

turgy22

Nothing Special
The flaw in that line of logic is that the government doesn't usually mandate things to protect people from their own stupidity; it usually mandates things to protect everyone from the stupidity of others. A few examples:
1) With the trash collection thing, usually if you want to live in a certain neighborhood, you have to use a certain collection service. I'm not entirely sure if this is mandated on the local government level or for each particular neighborhood association, but everyone usually has a law about it if you want to live in a certain area. Now you might think this infringes on your right to choose your own garbage-collection agency, but it's certainly more efficient to have one company handle an area instead of multiple agencies coming by and clogging up the streets with their trucks on different days. Also, it prevents anyone from "opting out" in order to save money. If they did so, they'd end up with either a huge pile of garbage on their front lawn or starting a landfill in their yard, in which case both options would hurt their neighbors by decreasing their property value and otherwise making it an unpleasant area to live.
2) Healthcare is a similar situation. With our current system, anyone who refuses to get health insurance isn't just hurting themselves; they're hurting the entire country. If a medical situation arises that they can't afford to pay for, hospitals still must treat them. Those costs get passed along to other patients in the hospital (raising their rates) and taxpayers, if the hospital is subsidized by the government. Mandating health insurance, like forcing everyone to get their trash removed, should benefit the entire system.
3) The best example of protecting people from the stupidity of others is probably the financial reforms that just got passed, although in this case, it's more of an example of protecting from greed than stupidity. The country is currently suffering through the effects of what happens when extremely greedy people are allowed to play with other people's money for their own gains.

I guess the real issue though, is whether or not each specific scenario really protects the masses from each other or whether it just protects an individual from his or her own stupidity. I think the three examples above show that regulations are needed in those areas to protect the masses, but other recent situations, I'm not so sure of. I think a lot of people who got bailed out during the recession fell under the category of "stupid" and deserved what they got. A lot of people engaged in risky mortgages, looking to turn their houses for a profit or refinance, based on a higher projected property value. A lot of those people got government assistance (at the cost of the responsible masses) when they should have been forced to pay for their mistakes.
 
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DarthFerret

Guest
I have to disagree with you here. On the subject of trash removal, you dont need to mandate a monopoly business in a location. Merely institute a system of fines for having a trashy yard. In fact, the competition between collection companies would lower the cost! On Healthcare, you are half right. The biggest problem that we have here, in my opinion (and yes it is a bit harsh..but oh well), is that hospitals ARE required to treat anyone. Get rid of this requirement, then the government has no leg to stand on in the issue of govt. supplied insurance (cause by God it works so good in Canada and England....that is why thier patients come to America to get thier surgieries, etc, in a timely fashion). As far as the financial reform thing, I am not competent enough in this subject to make any comments on it so will ceede that point to you until I have some chance to learn more on that topic. (not likely as I start working 10 hour night shifts this next week...ugh).
 
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EricBess

Guest
KJ - I think everyone understands that there are some items that are "public goods" that no one would pay for if they weren't taken care of by the government. That's one of the reasons for government. Personally, I hate toll roads. They are a huge pain and difficult to predict when budgeting. I would much rather have a gas and/or vehicle tax that is used to create and maintain roads. Other areas where I support public funds are education (some disagree with me here and I definitely like options - I won't get started on the current problems with public education which is another topic entirely), and security (police, fire, etc.) Interestingly enough, most ambulances are not public. I'm sure there are states where they are.

Trash collection is an interesting one, but it brings up an important point. When the constitution was first established, there was a concept of pushing taxation to the most local level. The constitution itself didn't allow the federal government to impose a direct tax. There had to be an amendment which changed the wording of the constitution itself to allow that to happen. I don't think that trash collection necessarily needs to be a "public good". I personally think that market forces would push to different companies covering different areas naturally. After all, if one company does a good job and covers a certain neighborhood, a new company would probably have to charge more to residents of that neighborhood since they don't normally go there. If a trash company isn't doing a good job, another company might see an oportunity, take a loss while they established themselves, and eventually take over that neighborhood.

However, if there were a city government that wanted to try publicizing trash service, let them do that at the city level. If people want to live in that city, they do so knowing that taxes are a bit higher to compensate, but they don't have to worry about paying the garbage pick-up.

I agree with DarthFerret on healthcare. But turgy, I think you said it right when you said "with our current system". I'm all for changing that system. Instead, the government wants to keep the system, but add even more regulations and rules to it.

I completely disagree with you on financial reform, turgy. Markets work because greed is mitigated by risk. The financial "reform" was "necessary" because the government decided that risk needed to be removed from the equation. With market forces in effect, if you get greedy, you take the chance that someone is going to be able to provide the same service for less. In the stock market and banks, if you get greedy, you risk things taking a turn and losing everything. When the government decides that they are going to bail you out, then the risk is removed from the equation and there is nothing to mitigate the risk. If you truely want to reform the financial market, then get the government and the government "guarentees" out of the equation.

KJ - one more thing I wanted to comment on. I think the problem is that government knows what the true "public goods" are. The problems come because government gets into special projects and other things that they shouldn't be in in the first place. When funds get tight, they don't cut those special programs. Instead, they cut back on the necessary things. Then, they say that they don't have money and need to raise taxes in order to support those public goods. People pay because they feel that those things are important and while they don't necessarily believe the government about where the money is going, they aren't really sure what they can do about it, either.
 

Killer Joe

New member
For instance? Like saving a local forest? or paying a trash can making company $5,000 for each custom made trash can? what are some examples of Not 'public goods'?
 
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