S
Sammy Dead-O
Guest
I really didn't mean for this to turn into a debate or a forum for criticism, primarily because it's a road most vegetarians have been down a thousand times. You bring it up, someone gets offended for some reason, maybe the f-word gets thrown in, and we're right where we started. Yes, I know many of you like meat; yes, I know you don't think vegetarianism can make a difference; yes, I know you think it's stupid.
To everyone who's been kind enough to engage in rational discussion: Thanks.
As a summary of my moral view of vegetarianism, I'll just mention that total compassion is perhaps the highest of ideals for me, and so vegetarianism naturally comes from that. I know I have faults; I know I'm not compassionate all the time; but that doesn't stop me from trying in this area.
For those who subscribe to some form of a "survival of the fittest" view of meat-eating: If this is truly your path to ethics, then so be it. May Nietzsche guide you well in your decision-making. In truth, though, I think most of us base morality on much more than, "Hey, it's here, let's get pleasure out of it."
Beyond what animals are here for, it should be pointed out that meat industries are pretty cruel. The argument against vegetarianism must go deeper than the idea that animals meet our "needs." I actually have a great deal of respect for hunting and fishing as genuine means of survival; most people don't do this, however, when factory-farmed meat is readily available.
On some random questions that have come up:
Vegetarianism can include eating eggs and dairy products. This is commonly called ovo-lacto-vegetarianism. Complete avoidance of foods originating with animals is usually called veganism. I'm still ovo-lacto- right now, and I'm phasing out those areas gradually. I, too, love chocolate milk, but chocolate soy or rice milk makes a good substitute. And eggs--they're everywhere. I ate an Oatmeal Creme Pie today...eggs. It's hard, but I'm trying.
On vegetables genetically engineered with animal DNA: A friend of mine brought this up recently. I'm not sure what to think; I'd have to do some research into the treatment of the animals involved. I'm not really scared off by something "unnatural." I just want it to be as pain-free as possible.
Yup, there's a difference in fake meat and a steak. Steak is delicious. I choose not to eat it, even though I used to. I probably like tofu and other meat substitutes just as much.
I'm glad to know the term "pulses" now, and Baltis sound delicious. Maybe I can track one down sometime.
It is possible to get all necessary nutrients without consuming any products with animal sources. Variety is key. If you have to, you can take a vitamin supplement to get something like vitamin B12, but it's also found in nutritional yeast. Vitamin D is the other main vitamin concern for most people, and you get that from spending time in the sun. Meat isn't necessary, even if we've been conditioned to think it is.
And now, a question for non-American CPAers: Are the (outdated) four food groups (bread/cereal, fruit/vegetables, meat/protein, dairy) taught to children in your countries?
Thanks for reading this, especially if you waded through all of it.
To everyone who's been kind enough to engage in rational discussion: Thanks.
As a summary of my moral view of vegetarianism, I'll just mention that total compassion is perhaps the highest of ideals for me, and so vegetarianism naturally comes from that. I know I have faults; I know I'm not compassionate all the time; but that doesn't stop me from trying in this area.
For those who subscribe to some form of a "survival of the fittest" view of meat-eating: If this is truly your path to ethics, then so be it. May Nietzsche guide you well in your decision-making. In truth, though, I think most of us base morality on much more than, "Hey, it's here, let's get pleasure out of it."
Beyond what animals are here for, it should be pointed out that meat industries are pretty cruel. The argument against vegetarianism must go deeper than the idea that animals meet our "needs." I actually have a great deal of respect for hunting and fishing as genuine means of survival; most people don't do this, however, when factory-farmed meat is readily available.
On some random questions that have come up:
Vegetarianism can include eating eggs and dairy products. This is commonly called ovo-lacto-vegetarianism. Complete avoidance of foods originating with animals is usually called veganism. I'm still ovo-lacto- right now, and I'm phasing out those areas gradually. I, too, love chocolate milk, but chocolate soy or rice milk makes a good substitute. And eggs--they're everywhere. I ate an Oatmeal Creme Pie today...eggs. It's hard, but I'm trying.
On vegetables genetically engineered with animal DNA: A friend of mine brought this up recently. I'm not sure what to think; I'd have to do some research into the treatment of the animals involved. I'm not really scared off by something "unnatural." I just want it to be as pain-free as possible.
Yup, there's a difference in fake meat and a steak. Steak is delicious. I choose not to eat it, even though I used to. I probably like tofu and other meat substitutes just as much.
I'm glad to know the term "pulses" now, and Baltis sound delicious. Maybe I can track one down sometime.
It is possible to get all necessary nutrients without consuming any products with animal sources. Variety is key. If you have to, you can take a vitamin supplement to get something like vitamin B12, but it's also found in nutritional yeast. Vitamin D is the other main vitamin concern for most people, and you get that from spending time in the sun. Meat isn't necessary, even if we've been conditioned to think it is.
And now, a question for non-American CPAers: Are the (outdated) four food groups (bread/cereal, fruit/vegetables, meat/protein, dairy) taught to children in your countries?
Thanks for reading this, especially if you waded through all of it.
, grasshoppers