A weird Onslaught Rumor...

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by FoundationOfRancor, Aug 24, 2002.

  1. FoundationOfRancor The Gunslinger

    Over at Mtgnews, Rancored Elf is saying - with alot of seriousness - that cycling will be back in onslaught. In addition, he states that the 'tribal' mechanic will be a individual coat of arms feature. Oh, also some rulings on morph creatures that we knew.

    Anyway, what do you guys think? I mean, cycling? I guess it makes sense...if they would bring back any mechanic to explore, it would be cycling. And, it does fit in the whole discard thing...
  2. FoundationOfRancor The Gunslinger

    "Yes, all the spells in Legion are creature spells. Does that mean there are no non-basic lands in the set? I'm not sure. "
    -Rancored Elf

    So, I think we can assume that there will be non creature morph spells.
  3. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    I'm afraid I don't follow your logic. What does a set with nothing but creatures have to do with non-creature morph spells?

  4. FoundationOfRancor The Gunslinger

    Well, I think this is a big supporter of the theory of non-creature, even non-permanent morph cards. If you put your 2UU counterspell down as a morphed 2/2 creature, I guess thats counts as a creature in the set.

    I dont know, could be just lunacy. Im suprised this thread hasnt gotten many hits, I thought people would be jumping for new set crap.
  5. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    Okay, I see what you mean now.

    If the rumor is true, I think it means the set will literally have only creature cards. I imagine there would be loads of activated and triggered abilities, along with static abilities, and possibly creatures that can change their permanent type (like the Licids do).

    There is another rumor that the second expansion in the block (Scourge) will have no creature spells at all. I do think it's possible -- even in Onslaught, but I doubt it -- that there could be non-creature cards with morph, but they would surely be permanents, not instants/sorceries.

    Then again, WotC R&D has surprised me in the past, so who knows?
  6. Purple_jester New Member

    It could be a set full of overcosted vanilla creatures. They could call it "Buehler's Legion."

    But seriously, we must all remember that though all the spell might be creature spells, it has no bearing on any non-basic lands. Why? Simply this: LANDS AREN'T SPELLS. :D
  7. Thallid Ice Cream Man 21sT CeNTuRy sChIZoId MaN

    Oh really? You tell that to the guy in the Microprose Magic game who tells you to take a land spell to the next town :p :D

    But that's true... although there still might be no lands at all in Legion.

    If they do mess around with card type distribution in this set I just hope they don't also mess around with color distribution.

    About cycling... as long as Fluctuator is safely banned in Extended I have no problem with it.
  8. train The Wildcard!!!...

    Legions, if all creatures, would be awesome... As for cycling - this is always good for the 4 colors in magic to have so they can compete with the color above magic(blue).
  9. Lotus Mox New Member

    Fluctuator isn't banned in Extended...

    Here's hoping that there will be new cycling costs esp. non-mana ones. I also have that funny feeling that the new cycling cards will be costed more aggressively to make them more tourney-viable than the old ones.

    If this all-creature rumor is true, wotc started a new trend of opposite themed expansions. I wonder how the expansions of the block after Onslaught are split, different colors and all creatures(Legions)/no creatures(Scourge) are already taken. what's left?
  10. Sammy Dead-O wasting away again

    In the Bacon block, I bet Lettuce will be all commons and Tomato will be all rares.:p

    I'm with CT in that the idea of a creatureless set lends itself to non-creature morph cards (but that they will probably be permanents).
  11. Purple_jester New Member

    Hmm... If it is true that Legion will be a creature set, then I'm looking at blue to get the shaft. Why? Because of the policy that blue is supposed to get the worst creatures of the 5 colors because it gets to have card-drawing and countering.

    Either that, or they'll reprint Morphling, Palinchron and Tradewind Rider, and the Magic community will go insane. (as if it hasn't already...) :rolleyes:
  12. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    I still don't understand the problems with morph instants or sorceries - in theory they sound strong but its relatively easy to kill them as creatures at inopportune times for their caster (esp sorceries). You might have a sleeping counterspell, but what do you do when I shock it?

    I'd have no problems with seeing Cycling come back, I always felt it was a very balanced mechanic (minus the Fluctuator). Altough I'd like to see more cards like Wild Dogs than like Rune of Protections.
  13. Thallid Ice Cream Man 21sT CeNTuRy sChIZoId MaN

    Excuse me while I search for the water closet.
    (Proper characters do not exist to mimic the sound made in the toilet bowl.)
  14. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    If cycling is in Onslaught, I'd have to image that Fluctuator immediately goes on the Extended Watch list before Onslaught becomes ex legal. Maybe they can have Zvi try to break it for them (the DCI) like he did Yawgmoth's Bargain.

    Speaking of extended, with the Ball Firecat sligh just became even better than it already is.
  15. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    The problem is this:

    When you flip the morphed instant/sorcery face-up, you have a non-permanent card on the board. There are no rules that govern this scenario (that I know of) but the default action would be to place the card in its owner's graveyard.

    Since "morph" is a keyword ability, the morph rules would have to say that they put the card back on the stack as a spell. If they did this for instants/sorceries, they would have to do it for all the other card types, too.

    Moving to a slightly different topic...

    As it looks now, "morph" will follow the rules for face-down cards, with the exception that flipping them involves paying a cost rather than flipping it for free (as you can with Camouflage and Mask of Illusion) and the face-down cards are 2/2, not 0/1.

    So there is no reason to think they would do something as bizarre as non-permanent morph cards.

    Shifting topics yet again...

    I'm not concerned about Fluctuator. The main power of Fluctuator before was with cycling creature cards in combination with Living Death and of course Dark Ritual.

    My guess is that the Cycling costs (if this rumor is true) in Onslaught would vary. In what ways they might vary is anyone's guess, but don't expect anything too tricky unless some of the cycling cards have abilities either that trigger on being discarded or that function in the graveyard.

    My point is that, unless most of the creature cards have "Cycling: 2," Fluctuator won't be too useful with them.
  16. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    A new set of rules has to be written for the Morph cards anyway, so why can't the actual Morph payment represent an activated ability - like Madness payment represents both static and triggered abilities.

    When the instant/sorcery is activated it should be treated like a sacrifice so it avoids coming into play as a permanent, I don't see how that is too difficult to add to the rules. I see a Morph counter, for example, very similar to Daring Apprentice. Instead of the creature counter being a blue 1/1 with a Tap: sac effect, it is a colorless 2/2 with a 2UU: sacrifice effect.

    As an activated ability (which makes sense because you are paying for the effect of any card changing forms) it becomes uncounterable minus Bind and Interdict, just as Daring Apprentice is. However, they are now vulnerable to creature kill.

    My main point, following the precedents previously set for the rules of the game, Morph instants and sorceries don't work. But its a brand new keyword ability that they have yet to release the rules. They can give it a special exception. WotC breaks the rules of the game seemingly with every set, why would that stop now?

    They can make Morph inst/sors work, and I feel it would be a mistake not to as their nature would add a lot to Magic.
  17. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    from MTGnews.com

    "-Morph doesn't use the stack (it happens right away, like tapping a land for mana)."

    Well, so much for my argument. Blasted! And it was such a good argument.

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