2-colour Coalition Victory attempt

Discussion in 'Casual Decks/Variants/Etc' started by Demon, Feb 25, 2002.

  1. Demon New Member

    This has probably been discussed before, but I didn't see it, so at the risk of unneccessary duplication I'm going to post anyway. ;)

    I'm toying with the idea of putting together a deck that will win using Coalition Victory, but is only based on two-colours.

    I've decided on blue and green, because they are the most common colours associated with what I'm trying to do -- which is, use colour- and land type-changing to achieve the Coaltion Victory.

    Here's a preliminary build. It's off the top of my head, and some of the numbers are a little soft because I'm at work and can't remember exactly how many of each of these 'soft number' cards I've actually got (if any!). I'll mark these with an *

    Shifting Coalition Victory (aka Canadian Politics):

    Change land type:
    4x Reef Shaman
    1x Dream Thrush*
    4x Sea Snidd

    Change creature colour:
    4x Tidal Visionary
    1x Blind Seer*
    4x Kavu Chameleon
    2x Rainbow Crow*
    2x Shyft
    4x Wild Mongrel

    Other:
    1x Coalition Victory (wish I had more)
    4x Counterspell (support for casting Coalition Victory)
    4x Mana Leak (ditto)
    4x Thwart* (ditto)
    1x Library of Leng (to make sure I don't lose what I need before I can cast it)

    Lands:
    14 Island
    6x Forest



    I also thought of maybe adding a couple of Last Stands as backup support, maybe a Spellbook, maybe some Shimmering Mirage's (if I have any), and maybe some Rhystic Tutors. I also thought of trying this idea out with R/G instead, based on various Kavu.

    I figured I'd stick with basic lands, since getting the various colours of mana is important, but not nearly as important as having all 5 basic land types. Any thoughts on this point are VERY welcome. :confused:

    Any and all comments/constructive criticisms are welcome and appreciated.
    I'm not worried about sticking with only 60 cards in the deck, this is for casual play after all. Also, I'm not keen on Mystical Tutor, for the simple fact that I don't want to reveal to my opponents that my next draw will be Coalition Victory, only to have them mill it away. :mad:

    thanks for your help, and if you've tried this type of deck already and are willing to share your build and its success (or lack thereof) feel free!

    cheers
  2. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Better than the multitudes trying to use Sliver Queen.

    However, if you're trying just Type II cards, you could actually try the Atogatog instead of Sliver Queen.

    I wish I had some more insight for you, but I've never tried this deck.
  3. Demon New Member

    Thanks for the compliment. I'm trying to stay away from the 'super-gold' creatures, it just seems too easy. Besides, I like the idea of just shifting all my creatures and lands colours on one turn and then casting the Victory for the win! Has more of a dramatic punch to it, and people would wonder just what the heck was going on during my turn ( until I cast the Victory, that is)!

    Any thoughts on the use of just basic lands? Good idea/bad idea? Also, I'm not worried about staying Type II legal (or any type for that matter), in fact if I did that with this deck list it was just a coincidence. :D

    More help needed please :(
  4. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Can you build a Domain style deck perhaps?

    I've never actually built a domain deck, but the usual cards are something like this for the green component:

    4 Far Wanderings and/or Harrow
    1-2 Hollistic Wisdom
    4 Lay of the Land
    ? New Frontiers (too much card advantage to your opponent though perhaps).

    This could replace your blue creatures that manipulate land. Also it would help speed up your mana base in general.

    I hate to say it, but if you are having problems consistantly getting your creatures the right colors, try to get a "super-gold" (great nickname!) creature into play with it. If you can speed up your mana enough, perhaps you can afford to play it along with Victory in the same turn?

    OH! Here's an idea: Instead of "super-gold" creatures, try adding Phelddagrif (or the Questing variety). Along with Mongrel and some of your other creatures, you might have black and red taken care of enough, and Phelddagrif is fairly cheap.
  5. Demon New Member

    I did a domain style deck before, will probably build one again. Used Lay of the Land and Harrow as you say, also Sol Grails. I liked it, but it needed major modifications (in other words, only had a few creatures of a couple colours, so the Coalition Victory was VERY hard to pull off), I used Legacy Weapon to slow down the opposition (have you ever used the Legacy Weapon 3 or 4 times in one turn? Now THAT'S a feeling of power! :eek: :cool: :D ) and also to clear the board of defenders so I could hit with my creatures. Actually pretty fun to play, but people tend to gang up on you once the Weapon hits the table so I didn't win too many of those games :(

    About this current idea: I can't really say that I'm having trouble getting my lands/creatures the right colours, as I haven't actually played the deck yet. I'm hoping to try it out this weekend though, and I'll post here what the results are if you're interested.

    If this build doesn't quite work as well as I hope it will, I may take my other idea of using r/g kavu to get all the lands/colours covered and try it that way. A couply of Tundra Kavu and Slimy Kavu will take care of the w/u/b lands I'm not running, and Kavu Chameleon and Wild Mongrel should take care of the creature colours, plus maybe some of the hippos you mentioned (I think I have one of each, I'm not sure). The problem with this build is that I won't have access to counter magic to push throught the Victory. Might be worth a shot anyway though.

    thanks for the thoughts, I appreciate all the feedback, if you have any more ideas feel free to throw 'em in here!


    Thanks
  6. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    I really wish I had some better suggestions for you! But I seriously don't. :(
  7. Demon New Member

    Okay, I'll let you know how it runs. :D

    I'm also toying with the idea of going monoblue with this, and replacing the green spells with card-drawing.

    Oh, btw, here are some revisions based on what cards I actually own, and some adjustments to the countermagic component that I think are easier to pull off:

    -1 Blind Seer (don't own that guy)
    -2 Kavu Chameleon (thought I had four, guess not)
    -4 Thwart (too expensive to hard cast, and with all the land switching will I be able to afford the alternate cc?)
    -1 Mana Leak (thought I had four of that too, oh well)
    +4 Memory Lapse (cheap cc needing only one U)
    +4 Jaded Response (same as Memory Lapse, and I shoud have a creature of every colour to fuel it with)

    -1 Island
    -3 Forest
    +3 Tropical Island
    +1 Yavimaya Coast
    I've rethought my original position on land type versus access to different colours of mana - with the switching, I'll have the land types I want when I need 'em! What was I thinking before?!

    cheers!
  8. Demon New Member

    I won with this deck, pulled off the Coalition Victory! :eek: :D :cool:

    I was in a three player game, person on my left playing a RWB deck featuring stuff like Kaervek's Torch, Hallowed Healer, Goblin Legionaire, Reverse Damage, Flowstone Charger, and the most nasty combo of 2x Fervent Charge and Breeding Pit! Man, a free 4/5 attacker every turn is BRUTAL!

    The person on my right was playing mono-black nastiness, using Bog Witch and Dark Ritual to get early (and often) big boys like Greven il-Vec, Ascendant Evincar, Spinked Fluke, Repentant Vampire, Volrath the Fallen, plus recursion like Cabal Surgeon, Zombify, Chainer Dementia Master.

    The game went on for a while, creatures getting played and killed all around, me countering particularly nasty big creatures or painful spells. We'd been at a stall for a while; if one of us attacked and killed one player, the third player could kill them next turn. Admittedly, I was in the most vulnerable position, with only 2 Sea Snidds, 1 Reef Shaman and 2 Shyfts plus land on the board, and a land in hand (bluffing counterspell).

    Eventually, it came down to RWB guy at 6 life, B guy at 7 life, and me at 6 life. A ten power Greven (boosted by Ascendant Evincar and Vampiric Embrace) attacked my RWB opponent, who cast Reverse Damage to go up ten life, to sixteen. It was pretty much now or never for me, because I had no way to deal with the beasts on the board (the situation was pretty much what I listed as samples from their decks above, minus chainer but plus a Nightmare). My Reef Shaman had only been played the turn before, and now could be used, and all game long I had been making the Shyfts all five colours during my upkeep so I did so again. I untapped, drew the Victory, and let out a sigh of relief. I tapped the Snidds and the Shaman to make three of my islands a mountain, plains, and swamp, tapped them plus four islands and my lone forest ( had a tropical island and Yavimaya Coast most of the game, so I had had Wild Mongrel and Kavu Chameleon in play from time to time, until they died) and tossed the Coalition Victory onto the table!

    What a nerve-wracking game. I definitely think I will drop the green component of this deck for blue card drawing, so I can get the Victory into my hand earlier, and maybe some more creatures for defense and to make sure I have enough to fuel the Victory, I was losing creatures all over the place during this game.

    Any thoughts/comments on the events, proposed deck changes, etc are warmly welcomed. :)
  9. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    COOL! Damn, what a way to win!

    First of all, what is your current deck list? You said you're dropping the green component, so what is in currently? I'll make some suggestions then.

    One idea did spring to mind, although it by nature weak: Zephid's Embrace - protect your Shyft and pump him up as a kill if you haven't drawn Coalition Victory.

    Damn, that sounds like such a cool game to play, I wish I could have watched it.

    If you have them, I presume more Island-based dual lands would be of great assistance to you, as well as the corresponding painlands just for mana production.
  10. Demon New Member

    After dropping the six green spells, I thought of adding in 1x Gush and 4x Inspiration, and maybe 1x Opportunity. But with your suggestion about protecting the Shyft, and then realizing I don't have any Zephid's Embrace :( in my collection, I might instead go with this build:

    4x Reef Shaman
    1x Dream Thrush
    4x Sea Snidd

    4x Tidal Visionary
    2x Rainbow Crow
    2x Shyft

    1x Coalition Victory
    4x Counterspell
    3x Mana Leak
    4x Memory Lapse
    4x Jaded Response
    1x Library of Leng

    6x some combination of Robe of Mirrors, Diplomatic Immunity, Alexi's Cloak (mostly Immunities, I think I have 3, then probably 1 Robe and 2 Cloaks)

    I'm taking your land suggestion too, and using all the island related duals I own:
    3x Tropical Island
    1x Volcanic Island
    1x Tundra
    15x Islands

    I didn't include the painlands, 'cause I don't think I can afford the life loss, plus I can get the coloured mana when I need it anyway - hopefully ;)

    Man, you should have seen the craziness in that game! countermagic flying left right and centre, massive creature wars and direct damage shots to the head, and those disgusting double Fervent Charged tokens (not to mention the Flowstone Charger in the same situation), plus Greven, Volrath, and Crovax kept coming back over and over. It was just brutal!! :eek:
    Anyway, whaddaya think of the new (possible) build? Any improvements to be made? Should I still add some card drawing? Feel free to try out the deck in your group and see how it fares, I'd love to hear how other people do with decks or ideas that I've come up with or helped out on! :D
  11. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    I think your deck looks solid execpt for one thing, do you have any search in that deck? I'd be worried about the one time Coalition Victory is at the bottom of my deck and I couldn't hold off the creature beats. (Is this a purely multiplayer deck, btw?)

    Actually, that is a better idea, on second thought.

    Hey, I'm jealous! I only get my head beat in by Multani and Masticore in my games of 5, otherwise, I don't play much. :(

    Given what you told me about the format you were playing in, cutting the green is optimal. It sounds like you can produce the right mana no problem, with the right lands... The main problem is holding off threats to your life total. You've got the countermagic. Forbid is expensive, but with Coalition Victory in hand, maybe you can combine it with Library of Leng? Just 1 or 2.

    CHA1N5 just mentioned a mad wicked idea: Library of Leng and Wild Research.
  12. Demon New Member

    You hit the nail right on the head:
    That is EXACTLY my number one worry. So, should I cut the Diplomatic Immunity family and include draw/search? Or just hope for the best? :confused:

    Oh, and I pretty much only play multiplayer, usually 3 or 4 but sometimes 5 or 6 players. I don't really think this deck would last long in a duel, but y'never know until you try I guess.

    You also grabbed my number two worry:
    So do I add more countermagic (I've got three Miscalculations sitting at home doing nothing right now)? or more draw/search ala problem number one? Or again, just pray that I last long enough? :(

    Sorry to hear that you don't get to play much, I don't get to play as often as I'd like either!

    Wild Research and Library of Leng, eh? Hmmm, I'll have to give that some thought, sounds interesting...
  13. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Your threats become stronger if you can pump them. Zephid's Embrace would really help with that. They also offer an alternate win condition if all else fails. But you have none! SO! I have two at least, are you interested in trading? If so, PM me.

    This is where it's difficult for me to judge. I'd cut down on the protection and add at least 1 or 2 (Mystical) Tutors.

    Are we preaching to the choir or what?! :)

    Not the easiest idea to work into your deck, but devestating when pulled off - discard what you don't need for the counter magic you do.

    I don't think Miscalculation is your answer, btw. A random thought is that if you can screw that black player from not being able to use the BBB floating in his mana pool, you've just made one nice version of Undermine. Not sure how much this helps you, but it's a thought. Ertai's Meddling?
  14. Demon New Member

    Ertai's Meddling looks VERY interesting. I'll have to see if I can find one of those as well.

    I think I will throw a couple of tutors in there and see what happens.

    Thanks for all your help! :D
  15. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Personally I think you can usefully cut into your counterspells, you`ve got plenty in there.

    Id go to two Coalition Victories, and then throw in a tutor ir two Mystical Tutor should be the one you want.

    If you are worried about getting smashed by bigger creatures, have you considered the thematic Well Laid Plans?

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