Marriage...

[rkoelsch]

You get out of a marriage what both parties are willing to put into it. I think of marriage as a contract that both people accept. If both persons don't work at it the marriage won't survive. I told my wife I wouldn't live with her. I did it for a reason I know what kind of person I am. Without the commitment that marriage signifies I would have left the first time she yelled at me for staying out too late. It doesn't work for everyone but it works for me.

Duke, my wife doesn't play Magic or most other games.

 

[Ghost_of_Rando]

My wife and I attend a D&D game every Saturday, with her and I allternating being the DM for about 8 to 12 people per game session. A lot of the older geek-boys are still getting used to the idea of a "girl" DM, although she's been playing D&D for 15 years.

We also play Magic, although she does not attend tournaments and dosn't care about formats or restrictions. It's odd to play one of my Extended or Type-II decks against one of her freaky Type-Whatever decks, like bizzare Underworld Dreams combos and her super-accelerated Jorael/Magetta kill-all-of-your-permanants-I-win decks. Only she can take two 5 mana creatures and turn it into a workable combo. Of coarse, 4 Sol Rings help.

We both also play bridge and have a collection at home of over 100 board games, which we play one or two of a couple times a week. She rules at Scrabble...she's one smart cookie...but I typically dominate at Yahtzee...the dice favor me.

We are really best friends, and it amazes me to see how many interests we share, from having the same taste in music, movies, games, television...but she reads trashy romances, and I can't abide that. She likens them to the difference between watching the Godfather and a matanee pop-corn flick.

And then, I'll see and talk to other couples, and they have nothing in common. They have seperate groups of friends and interests, and indeed it would seem that sleeping together and going in on the house payment is the only thing they share. It's quite sad, really.

I consider my self to be quite lucky to have found a woman who is so perfectly matched. How many of the rest of you can say this?

 

[DÛke]

...the couple I envy are *not* perfectly matched, yet they love each other like I've never *seen* before, never mind *feel.*

I think getting married because you're expected to be is the stupidest thing. How can anyone do something without really wanting to?

I also somewhat agree with Istanbul's idea that before taking such a "big" commitment, a person should live with the other for an extended period of time. I still think that it may *not* work. There are plenty of things that can happen that one can't foretell simply by living with another for 3 months, or even 3 years. Frankly, I think the idea of living with other in order to test his or her daily basis isn't a good idea, because if one truly loved the person, he should "take it all." Besides, living (or "testing") the person can't foretell what living with that person be like when there are kids around. I'm sure there are other things that can't be foreseen (good and bad) until unity has been established.

Rando, you have a perfectly matched relationship, yet...you can't have a computer (or internet access) at your place for reasons I wouldn't like to indulge in? And how old are you anyway -- 23-26?

As for marriage in general, although it's lovely in some cases, I still think it's just a relationship, like many unmarried others. Commitment doesn't have to involve marriage. In fact, I once knew a good committed unmarried couple who, after 5 years, got married and are still married, happily, to this day. Personally, I'm willing to be in a relationship for 10 whole years, getting to know the person, and only after that will I get married -- I'll get married mostly so my parents and her parents be happy about it, most parents feel "happier" when their kids are actually married rather going on a married-like relationship for a *long* time...

 

[Spiderman]

It IS a relationship, just one that is understood to be solely and exclusively between those two people for everyone to recognize. It's the step over the cliff.

Living together has its ups and downs. You see the everyday habits and hopefully can work them out. On the other hand, there's the danger of getting used to living with someone and thus when it comes to marriage it might feel like "just an event" or outing; you go do it and come right back to your same everyday routine.

 

[EricBess]

Originally posted by DÛke
There are plenty of things that can happen that one can't foretell simply by living with another for 3 months, or even 3 years. Frankly, I think the idea of living with other in order to test his or her daily basis isn't a good idea, because if one truly loved the person, he should "take it all." Besides, living (or "testing") the person can't foretell what living with that person be like when there are kids around. I'm sure there are other things that can't be foreseen (good and bad) until unity has been established.

Very well said Duke. Marriage will only work if both couples are committed to the relationship. Quite honestly, if you want to "test it out", that is already a strong indication that you are not committed.

Originally posted by Spiderman
Living together has its ups and downs. You see the everyday habits and hopefully can work them out. On the other hand, there's the danger of getting used to living with someone and thus when it comes to marriage it might feel like "just an event" or outing; you go do it and come right back to your same everyday routine.

Which is exactly why a casual attitude in society about living together has made people like Zadok not really feel that marriage is necessary. When it ceases to be the commitment, it is simply a government institution instead of a God-given institution.

The bottom line is you should date a lot of people to find a person who's company you really enjoy. Hang around that person in many different settings. Talk to that person about their philosophies on life. Do they want to eventually have children, for example? I've seen marrages fall apart because the wife wants children, the husband doesn't. Rather than talk about it, the wife simply stops taking the pill (or whatever). And the break up is not about the children, it is about the lack of trust.

Marriage is about trust and commitment. If you enjoy a person's company and are willing to put that trust and commitment into place, and they are too, than you will make it work. Trust me, marriage is not easy. People seem to think that if there are hard times, you must not be meant for each other... That's a serious cop-out attitude. You have to work at it to make it work. And it has nothing to do with living together to see if you can make it work. If you want to make it work, you will. Communication is far more important than so compatibility. With good communication, you will know if you are (or can be) compatible before you get to the altar.

 

[Spiderman]

Well, aside from being "God-given" (one might suppose at some time the religous establishment wanted more control over people so they made it that to be married, it had to be done by them), I can't really argue yea or nay on living together before getting married. I did it with my wife for 3 or so years and part of me loved living with someone whom I loved but I admit we fell into that danger I mentioned above sometimes and had to work to get out of it (to keep it refresh and we still have to work at it). My wife is the same way; she liked it too but also missed being on campus for her last two years at college and missing out on stuff there.

So what I'm saying is that it can work as long as you are aware of some of the pitfalls that can happen.

 

[EricBess]

Well, anytime you are talking about family and the ability to create life, you are treading on sacred ground, Spidey... You have kids? If so, just think back to the birth and you know what I'm saying. Unless you want to argue that marrage has nothing to do with family

But I'm not necessarily referring to "church" or "religous institution". Just the fact that there is a sacred nature to the marrage relationship in general. Each person has to decide what that is for themselves. I do agree that history had unfortunately seen times when a "church" (as opposed to a religion) tried to stick there nose in a bit too far, but that is unimportant to the point I was trying to make.

But don't get me wrong. A commitment level increase (or decrease) given the circumstances. All I'm saying is that you are more likely to be sucessful in the long run if the commitment exists based on more than just the physical. Living together is not needed to determine this if communication and trust exist.

 

[Ura]

I won't comment on the religious aspects of marriage as its different with each religion the only significant common idea is that its an official declaration of love and commitment to whatever god you follow. Otherwise you could write the religious "god-given" requirments off as propaganda made by control freak humans.

The social side of it is probably the one thing that changes the most early on because the couple is so into making the marriage work that they lessen their outward social activities a bit. This in itself can be a path to divorce because they're actively forcing a situation that I would assume has been going great, to change. Often they'll get to much of each other and feel restricted because of this. I believe Denis Leary said it best (or at least most humerous) when he said: "Marriage is about love, commitment, sharing, and stay the meow away from each other. Get seperate rooms if you have to. Just come out, eat, talk, go to work, meow and go back into seperate rooms."
The idea is maintaining the balance that has already existed in the relationship so that it can continue to flourish.

The personal side is also different for each person. Some hold marriage in the highest regard, others will value and respect it, some think its a ball and chain. I personally think love and marriage is nothing but sugar coated cyanide these days. Taste great, till it kills you. Some people are even scared of the idea because of the steriotyped ideas that go with it and being confined.

 

[DÛke]

...Ura.

Ura:

The personal side is also different for each person. Some hold marriage in the highest regard, others will value and respect it, some think its a ball and chain. I personally think love and marriage is nothing but sugar coated cyanide these days. Taste great, till it kills you. Some people are even scared of the idea because of the steriotyped ideas that go with it and being confined.

I am a bit afraid of being married because, like you mentioned, the stereotyping that goes with it...but I've gotten over that after seeing wonderful marriages that strengthened my will and encouraged me. It's one thing being in a relationship, but there's something "else" about being married that I can't quite get my hands on. Something "different" that makes a successful marriage look 307 times better than a successful relationship. I've seen them...I've seen happy relationships, and I've seen happy marriages...when you look at both concurrently, you should instantly get "the feeling." That “feeling” I can't explain...yet...but it feels good. Obviously, a simple, committed, non-married relationship lacks something for it not to have that feeling…

I don't care about religion at all, in marriages or what have you. I'm bound to merry a Christian...if that makes a difference. In the Qur'an, the married, non-Muslim woman has to convert to Islam, but I wont have such ridiculous procedures enforced. Also, a Muslim-born woman *has* to marry a Muslim man, otherwise she’s committing a sin. My female cousin in Canada is going through a problem right now, between trying to please her parents by marrying a Muslim guy, and pleasing herself by marrying whomever her heart sets upon. So stupid…I told her she has to marry whomever she likes, but she loves her parents a lot, so she’ll please them before herself…

Don't you think that if God existed and is purely divine, He wouldn't have such superfluous things stand in the way of love? Religion and marriage, to me, have nothing in common...and if there's a divine God of any sort, He woudn't care the least...

 

[Istanbul]

Originally posted by Gizmo
Three MONTHS?

I`d go for three YEARS at least.

Hence, the usage of the word 'minimum'.

 

[Zadok001]

Marriage is, to me at least, a governmental institution. It exists to make a coupling between a male and female "offical." This is logically unnessessary. If two people are a couple, there is no reason to make that an "official" state. It just IS. Yes?

 

[Spiderman]

EricBess: No kids yet, but I was just zeroing in on the capital usage of "God-given" and its connotation. I agree with everything else you said there and in the follow-up post.

Ura: It depends on how much you're trying to make it "work". It probably didn't come across, but I was only really using it in terms of when there are serious problems already. Otherwise, you just have to make a conscience effort not to fall into a "routine" or "rut", but it shouldn't be so bad that it's taking away from other things.

DUke: Yes.

Isty: He was probably just emphasizing the rather large time difference there

Zadok: Ideally yes, but like all societal things, when you're talking about huge groups of people you need that "definitive" and official "yes". It's like buying a car or buying a house or anytime else you sign a big contract thing: technically you can just give the money over to the salesperson and take possession of the material thing, but it's not "official" since nothing was signed stating so.

Put it this way: if there wasn't this "way", technically anyone could say they're together or a couple or whatever and claim such benefits that society has bestowed on such a status. The powers that be can't spend their time checking every single claim; they have enough trouble as it is now. So getting the marriage license is the "easy" way to tell if it's really on the up-and-up.

And yes, that does it make it a governmental institution, but a necessary one. And is it really that bad?

 

[DÛke]

...sure. That had been my mindset not too long ago. Though, do you know a happily married couple, Zadok? Do they not resemble something "better" than just an on-going relationship? What about having kids – isn’t just a little weird having kids, yet you’re not really a father? I don’t know…

Besides, if you think about it, marriage is not bad at all. I mean, if there is a good couple that is very well committed, why not make it "official" anyway? To satisfy all those who hunger for things being official, to gain those extra benefits, and...gain that unexplained feeling.

Also, being married, like Spiderman (or someone) already mentioned, means that you could practically go out, and "show-off" that you're a tough guy. When you get to go out on a group party or something, your friends can look at you, a happily married couple, and they...are...just like girlfriend/boyfriend from the good ol'days of high school and college.

 

[Spiderman]

I don't think I said that... or I didn't mean it that way. I was trying to get away from "bragging" about it 'cause you shouldn't get married for that reason either .

 

[DÛke]

...Spiderman. Though, if a couple is married, and they're *happily* married...why not brag about it to those who don't think of marriage as a big deal?

Rando did so in this very thread...

I wouldn't hesitate either...

 

[Spiderman]

I was trying to think of non-emotional benefits of why one should get "married" (or the difference between the label of marriage and just living together until you die).

But yes, it sometimes feels good to "be married" when you're with others who aren't (but not like a malicious superiority, just like a smug self-satisfaction).

 

[rkoelsch]

If you truly love this person you are living with, why would you deny to her the legitimacy in society of the relationship. Sure you can be brave non conformist laughing at the rigid establishment that you don't belong to until you are sick or you die and your mate no longer has your presence or legitimate right to any of your effects or say in your care. Why would you do that to someone you love?

 

[Killer Joe]

Marriage is a great institution. I'm married and have two little ones (3 & 6). Been married for 13 years and still going strong.
Do you have give up a little space? YES, but that's what it's all about, sharing and blending your lives together makes great synergy. Having kids is the kicker, however, we waited many years before we decided to start a family, we had to be with each other long enough to trust one another to make sure our commitment would work. Alot of broken homes out there due to folks not being a married couple w/o kids for a while.