2 Planes Crash into WTC

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Gerode

Guest
I am somehow reminded of history lessons on the beginnings of WWI after reading some of those news briefs...
 

Ransac

CPA Trash Man
To anybody that is interested in this incident and watches the WWF, they will perform tomorrow and will not work with storylines. They will pay tribute to those that perished yesterday. I don't think the WWF has put a whole show on hold since they paid tribute to the late, great Owen Hart.


Ransac, cpa trash man
 
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Duel

Guest
I cannot see this as the tragedy of the last 50 years. Maybe the American tragedy of the last 50 years. Maybe.
 
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Gizmo

Guest
There are any number of natural disasters that have caused far more death and destruction than this attack. It appears monumental now simply because until 8.45 on Tuesday morning nobody in America even considered this a remotest of possibilities, I think that in time a sense of perspective will develop.
This will remain a huge event, but perspective will place several others above it.
 
M

Mundungu

Guest
Giz : Americans are not used to destruction on their own soil.

War was always something from far away that you watch on TV with coke and pop-corn.

Back in Europe, we had the destruction of the wars, we had terrorism over the last 2 decades, we had recent war directly beyond our doors .. So we are "used" to it.

So we need to let the americans grasp now that they too are part of the world.

Welcome to the "real world" america, no place on earth is safe anymore.

Giz : lets give our American friends time to grief and to get to understand their situation. It is just so new to them.

As long as a strong public reaction dont bring the gov to do "stupid things" let them mourn and be angry.
 
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Griffith_se

Guest
Thank you. Thank God someone understands, thank god
someone not just simply trying to rub our noses in it.

Let me add one thing.

This was no car bomb, or letter bomb. You
Obviously don't understand the magnitude.
This can not be compared to, as Gizmo put it:
"A Spoilt Child being slapped for the first time"

This is much bigger than some of you can comprehend apparently.

I am American, and I'm proud of that fact.
I will make no appology's for being American.
I will not appologize for being angry.
I love this country, and whatever it takes to
keep it this way I will support 100%.
I may be alone here, but the majority of the free
world pretty much feels the same way.

Stick that in your pipe, and smoke it.
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Gizmo: I apologize if I misinterpreted what you were trying to say. I do agree that it was a logical outcome and that it didn't happen sooner (and it almost did in '93) and America was a tad complacent (apparently our airports have the worst security compared to other countries).

I think it's a "worst tragedy" in that it could have been "more preventable", if our intelligence agencies had gotten wind of it (as opposed to earthquake monitors or hurricane radar stuff and getting people out of the way). Certainly it's one of the worst in terms of "man-made", as opposed to natural.
 
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Griffith_se

Guest
I don't think you misinterpreted what he said.

He's been taking cheap shots since this first
happened. He's just trying to antagonize for some
reason (which I don't think has anything to do with the incident, but I have my suspicions).
I truly believe he just enjoys slinging sh*t. :)
Pardon my French.
 
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Rando

Guest
I agree...and he still has not answered my question.



Originally posted by Gizmo
Spidey - did I ever use the word 'deserved'? I dont think I did, and certainly thats not the word I mean to use if I did use it. I just think that you can plot a course to these events from the policies of the US government. Its not necessarily 'deserved' but it was a logical outcome.
To what policies are you refering?
 
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Ura

Guest
What Gizmo was saying does make sense logistically although his demenor seems a bit critical.
Western countries are involved in the affairs of the middle east, they have been for a long time. Militant and dictator groups and governments don't like or want this involvment because it keeps them in check from doing things like Iraq tried to do to Kuwait. To retaliate to this involvment terrorist groups spring up and start attacking the west which the United States is seen as the leader of and thus the figure head for everything the west stands for.
He said something along the lines of it was to be expected that terrorists would eventually strike, this much is true. Though I wonder if he would be as complacent and analytical if it had been Buckingham Palace, the British parliment, Trafalger Square, and
MI-6 that had the planes crashed into them.
Be honest, very few western countries expect or are prepared for anything like this to happen because they're gotten to relaxed with nothing happening.
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Doesn't London already suffer bombs from the IRA? Obviously not of this scale (pretty much nothing is on this scale), but it's not safe everyday like it is usually here, right?
 
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Ura

Guest
For the most part London and other cities in Britain are fairly safe and pleasant places just like in Canada and the US.

Yes they have a constant possibility of an IRA attack by bombing or assassination attempts. But then much like that Canada has to deal with criminal biker gangs, viatnamese and chinese drug triads in operation on the west coast and the constant shoot outs and assassination attempts that happen between them all. The US has the constant threat of middle eastern terrorist attacks and south american drug lords trying to bump people off. All three countries face relatively the same level of threats on a constant basis just from different political and criminal groups.
But what happened on tuesday as you said is totally beyond the scale of anything thats happened before in a western country. Thats why its so distinctly different, because the death toll and level of property damage is enormous.

Does this make other smaller events any less tragic? Of course not, the loss of a single innocent life is always tragic, but when you start talking about the possibility of the death toll being in the thousands it goes beyond tradgedy to something filled with far more saddness, anger, and thirst for justice/vengence depending on who you talk to.

Myself, I'm just trying to rationalize it as best I can from my own perspective and get the facts down. My emotional side is far more turbulent and dark which is why I need to ignore it.
No one ever expected something this big to happen. Partially from complacent arrogance and partially because this has been a totally unprecidented attack from a terrorist group in its size and cordination. The logistics of how they planned and pulled it off are frightening and everyone has a good reason to worry because its just one more thing to show that as long as things go the way they have been no one is safe.
 
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Neil Rigby

Guest
You talk about the scale of the events that have taken place and say that nothing of this magnitude has taken place before, yet if we are talking about sacle surely the fact that the entirety of Britain can fit into a single lake in America points to the fact the to have any real impact on the american society the death toll of a terrorist act would have to be in the thousands. This argument is strengthened by the fact that hundreds of people have been killed before by bombs and other such devices and little or nothing has been done in America yet in Britain we have been constantly aware of terrorism for decades because of attacks of such size by the IRA.
Griffith: you say that you are proud to be American and that you would 100% support anything to keep it how it is. This is exactly what these terrorist's were doing, they were supporting the ideals of their chosen leader (to a level beyond that which you would probably go). I am in no way condoning the actions of these extremists but am mearly pointing out that they were doing what you are claiming you would also do. You cannot possibly claim that in all the time America has spent in the middle east that it has not killed innocent people.
I would also like to point out that I find it very suspicious that none of the people who made phone calls from the planes mentioned who had hijacked it, when it would be one of the first things you say " Honey, I'm on the plane and it's been hijacked by ...... . I love you " or something along these lines, and I also think it's very convienient that a car was found with a copy of the Koran and a 'Learn how to fly a jumbo jet' manual in arabic on the seat when the people who commited this act where obviously very organised and highly intelligent.
 
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Ura

Guest
apparently the hijackers were wearing red bandana's as face masks according to some of the people who got calls from loved ones which would make identification difficult even under normal circumstances let alone the chaos of a hijacking in progress.
 
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Apollo

Guest
No, it makes perfect sense! That's why the one plane crashed outside of Pittsburgh instead of hitting its target! He didn't have his flight manual with him! I can see the scene now:

Hijacker 1: All right, let's go. We've got control of the plane now, we can go for the White House! They'll never forget our sacrifice!
Hijacker 2: Yeah! Okay, where's the manual?
HJ 1: I thought you had it.
HJ 2: No, you had it.
HJ 1: No, I specifically told you to pick it up when we got to the airport!
HJ 1: I got the knives! I told you to get it.
HJ 2: So it's still in the rental car? Shi(tocki mushrooms)!
HJ 1: So, what do you suppose these buttons do?

Please excuse the satire...
 
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Ura

Guest
hehe, its not as funny as it seems but I've actually had that exact situation happen in an rpg I was playing once, though we were breaking out of th brig on a spacecraft.
 

Ransac

CPA Trash Man
I watched the WWF tribute today and Vince McMahon came out with an opening speech urging the country to keep functioning and to not let terrorism get the best of us. I watched the countless interviews of the WWF Superstars giving their condolences and personal opinion on the situation. I was really moved, escpecially by Lilian Garcia's, Tazz's, Albert's, and Austin's. Then, of course, they pitted Kurt Angle in the main event to boost American morale. The let him kick out of a Gore by Rhyno and score a pinfall, followed by Angle leading the crowd in a "U S A! U S A!" chant as the program went off the air. It was a really huge tremendous effort by the whole crew. Congrats to the lot of them.


Ransac, cpa trash man
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Neil:
You cannot possibly claim that in all the time America has spent in the middle east that it has not killed innocent people.
That may be true. However, the claim can probably be made that the US has not gone out of its way to kill onnocent people; I heard that their was an interview with Norm S. (the general who led Desert Storm) and he said there were plenty of times that his forces went out of their way NOT to kill civilians, even at the cost of the safety of the troops.

I would also like to point out that I find it very suspicious that none of the people who made phone calls from the planes mentioned who had hijacked it, when it would be one of the first things you say " Honey, I'm on the plane and it's been hijacked by ...... . I love you " or something along these lines, and I also think it's very convienient that a car was found with a copy of the Koran and a 'Learn how to fly a jumbo jet' manual in arabic on the seat when the people who commited this act where obviously very organised and highly intelligent.
Agreeing with Ura, unless you're in that situation, how do you know how you're going to react? Even putting identification difficulties aside, let's check the situation. Flight attendents have been stabbed, people trying to bust into the cockpit... you don't know if your cell phone will work and for how long... saying "I love you" is a lot more important that trying to initially say who the hijackers are.

And as for leaving evidence behind, if the reports are true, I repeat that despite the massive planning going into this, you can't disregard that individually, someone might screw up and leave stuff behind.
 
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Zadok001

Guest
I would agree, Spidey, but those particular pieces of evidence are unbelievably perfect. I mean, sheesh. "Here's my religion! Here's proof I needed to learn to fly a jumbo jet! Whoo-hoo!" I mean, that's POSSIBLE, but the likelyhood?
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Probably the same likelihood as two bin Laden associates talking about how two targets were hit and having it captured by wiretaps or whatever... :)
 
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