New Phyrexia Event Decks: Spidey (Rot From Within) vs Oversoul (War of Attrition)

[Oversoul]

Gogo War of Attrition topdeck...

...but again, not until I get home.

 

[Oversoul]

UUD, Dread Statuary, done.

Spiderman: 18
Poison: 0
Hand: 4
Library: 49
Battlefield:

(U,U,U,U) Forest x4

(U) Viridian Corrupter (2/2; Infect; When ~ ETB, destroy target artifact)
(U) Insect creature token (1/1; Infect.)

Graveyard: Mutagenic Growth, Carrion Call
Exile:

====================================================================================================

Oversoul: 20
Poison: 0
Hand: 3
Library: 46
Battlefield:

(T,T,T,T,T) Plains x5
(U) Dread Statuary (T: C; 4: becomes a 4/2 golem artifact creature ueot.)

(U) Bonehoard (Living Weapon; Equipped creature gets +X/+X, where X is the number of creature cards in all graveyards.; Equip 2)

(S) Porcelain Legionnaire (5/3; First Strike.) *Bonehoarded*

Graveyard: Flayer Husk, Leonin Skyhunter, Stoneforge Mystic
Exile:

 

[Spiderman]

EOT, another Carrion Call. Responses?

 

[Oversoul]

Yeah, Counterspell.

 

[Spiderman]

There's no free Wishes in this game!

Untap, upkeep, Draw

Done

Spiderman: 18
Poison: 0
Hand: 4
Library: 48
Battlefield:

(U,U,U,U) Forest x4

(U) Viridian Corrupter (2/2; Infect; When ~ ETB, destroy target artifact)
(U) Insect creature token (1/1; Infect.)
(U) Insect creature token (1/1; Infect.)
(U) Insect creature token (1/1; Infect.)


Graveyard: Mutagenic Growth, Carrion Call, Carrion Call
Exile:

====================================================================================================

Oversoul: 20
Poison: 0
Hand: 3
Library: 46
Battlefield:

(T,T,T,T,T) Plains x5
(U) Dread Statuary (T: C; 4: becomes a 4/2 golem artifact creature ueot.)

(U) Bonehoard (Living Weapon; Equipped creature gets +X/+X, where X is the number of creature cards in all graveyards.; Equip 2)

(S) Porcelain Legionnaire (5/3; First Strike.) *Bonehoarded*

Graveyard: Flayer Husk, Leonin Skyhunter, Stoneforge Mystic
Exile:

 

[Oversoul]

UUD, Attack with Porcelain Legionnnaire. Responses/blocks?

 

[Spiderman]

Block with the Corrupter

 

[Oversoul]

Anything else? Or moving to combat damage?

 

[Spiderman]

I'll Primal Bellow my Corrupter. Dmg can resolve

 

[Oversoul]

Dmg can resolve

Look, I miss damage on the stack too, but you've got to let it go already.

 

[Spiderman]

Not sure what you mean. All *I* meant was that if you don't have any further responses, either to the Primal Bellows or once you get priority again after it resolves, I don't either and (combat) damage can resolve.

 

[Oversoul]

Stoneforge Mystic, search Skinwing, play Skinwing, done.

Spiderman: 18
Poison: 0
Hand: 4
Library: 48
Battlefield:

(U,U,U,U) Forest x4

(U) Viridian Corrupter (2/2; Infect; When ~ ETB, destroy target artifact)
(U) Insect creature token (1/1; Infect.)
(U) Insect creature token (1/1; Infect.)
(U) Insect creature token (1/1; Infect.)


Graveyard: Mutagenic Growth, Carrion Call, Carrion Call, Primal Bellow
Exile:

====================================================================================================

Oversoul: 20
Poison: 0
Hand: 3
Library: 45
Battlefield:

(T,T,T,T,T) Plains x5
(U) Dread Statuary (T: C; 4: becomes a 4/2 golem artifact creature ueot.)

(U) Bonehoard (Living Weapon; Equipped creature gets +X/+X, where X is the number of creature cards in all graveyards. Equip 2.)
(U) Skinwing (Living Weapon; Equipped creature gets +2/+2 and flying. Equip 6.)

(S) Stoneforge Mystic (1/2; When it etb, it can search for an equipment for me to to put into my hand. 1W,T: I put an equipment card from my hand onto the battlefield.)
(S) Germ token (2/2; Flying.) *skinwinged*


Graveyard: Flayer Husk, Leonin Skyhunter, Stoneforge Mystic, Porcelain Legionnaire
Exile:

 

[Oversoul]

Not sure what you mean.

What I mean is that combat damage cannot "resolve" because it no longer goes on the stack. That was Sixth Edition rules.

 

[Oversoul]

I suspect that you do know this and have just been used to saying it the old way (the old new way?), but to be clear, it used to be the case that during combat, damage from attackers and blockers would go on the stack, during which time it would be possible to respond to it with instants and instant-speed abilities. That was why, during Sixth Edition rules, I could block a 2/2 with Mogg Fanatic, let damage go on the stack, then before damage resolved I could sacrifice my Mogg Fanatic to do 1 damage to the attacker. As effects on the stack resolved, Mogg Fanatic's ability would do 1 damage, then combat damage would do 1 more, killing the attacker. After M10 rules changes, combat damage no longer uses the stack, and resolving isn't a thing it does. It just happens on its own once gameplay moves to the Combat Damage Step. So now there is no longer a window of opportunity for me to get both combat damage from my Mogg Fanatic and the effect of its activated ability. If it's dead before the Combat Damage Step, then it doesn't deal damage. If it's alive, then it takes damage and dies as a state-based effect. The damage didn't go on the stack, so I couldn't respond to it before it resolved. In the case of this game, it hasn't made a difference because my deck apparently has no instants in it and yours has enough to cast one every single combat, but they work perfectly well when cast during the Declare Blockers Step, before moving to the Combat Damage Step. Still, there is no resolution when it comes to combat damage. Effects on the stack resolve, and combat damage is no longer in that category.

 

[Spiderman]

I do know all of that; I've been playing on the board here "forever" and am quite aware of the rule changes. I realize your need to be "exact" with the wording so perhaps I should be saying "Damage assigned and dealt", but what I've been saying works for me and as everyone else has understood it, I'm pretty sure it can work for you.

Untap, upkeep, Draw

Attack with all
Responses/blocks/take it?
Spiderman: 18
Poison: 0
Hand: 5
Library: 47
Battlefield:

(U,U,U,U) Forest x4

(T) Viridian Corrupter (2/2; Infect; When ~ ETB, destroy target artifact)
(T) Insect creature token (1/1; Infect.)
(T) Insect creature token (1/1; Infect.)
(T) Insect creature token (1/1; Infect.)


Graveyard: Mutagenic Growth, Carrion Call, Carrion Call, Primal Bellow
Exile:

====================================================================================================

Oversoul: 20
Poison: 0
Hand: 3
Library: 45
Battlefield:

(T,T,T,T,T) Plains x5
(U) Dread Statuary (T: C; 4: becomes a 4/2 golem artifact creature ueot.)

(U) Bonehoard (Living Weapon; Equipped creature gets +X/+X, where X is the number of creature cards in all graveyards. Equip 2.)
(U) Skinwing (Living Weapon; Equipped creature gets +2/+2 and flying. Equip 6.)

(S) Stoneforge Mystic (1/2; When it etb, it can search for an equipment for me to to put into my hand. 1W,T: I put an equipment card from my hand onto the battlefield.)
(S) Germ token (2/2; Flying.) *skinwinged*


Graveyard: Flayer Husk, Leonin Skyhunter, Stoneforge Mystic, Porcelain Legionnaire
Exile:

 

[Oversoul]

I do know all of that; I've been playing on the board here "forever" and am quite aware of the rule changes. I realize your need to be "exact" with the wording so perhaps I should be saying "Damage assigned and dealt", but what I've been saying works for me and as everyone else has understood it, I'm pretty sure it can work for you.

If you realized that it was wrong and wanted to do it anyway, then why did you ask me what I meant and then repeat it the same way?

And yes, I can understand what is meant, just like I can understand it when you cut the vowels out of your words. So do it that way if you want, I guess? But we've both been abbreviating or shortcutting other things too (EtB for "enters the battlefield" and such). It adds up on mentally processing what's going on. I think most of the board states and posts here in Games Run are clear enough once people get used to them. But deliberately throwing in a reference to an old rule seems like an odd choice. It's not like it does something useful. It is trivially easy to type "moving on to combat damage" or just "combat damage" or even just "dmg" if you want. With abbreviations, at least I get that it is technically fewer keystrokes. But throwing in the (incorrect) word "resolves" is more keystrokes. But as long as we're clear on the rules, it isn't difficult to follow. I'll just have to be vigilant and remember that even though there's a reference to Sixth Edition rules, we're not actually playing under them. Should be pretty easy anyway, as I've played a lot of games under the new new rules.

Anyway, I'll block the Corrupter with the Germ and one of the insects with Stoneforge Mystic.

 

[Spiderman]

I wanted to *be sure* that that was what you meant. So yes, you did need to expand on what your single statement. Post #53 was fine. Post #54 was frankly, condescending and obnoxious.

And seriously? You really have a problem with me cutting out vowels and abbrieviating words like Mountain now? When I've been doing it forever, including past games we've played like Commander or Tribal or whatever? Including "Damage resolves", even after the M10 rules change? Look, to me, in this instance, "resolves" is the same as "dealt", especially that I'm not saying stuff like "combat damage on the stack, responses?" - Which I have before M10, when it *did* apply. It seems pretty clear that if no one has any (further) responses at the Blockers Declared step, it's going to the Combat Damage step and straight through to be being dealt/resolved. You want to get technical with the rules, you never said if you were going to mulligan or not after I said I was, both times. You want to talk about understanding the board state, you don't color your cards on the battlefield, which has been the accepted way of displaying useful information. Yeah, I get it's easier just to type it and not include the tags or use the drop down color box. Or even assume that because you're playing an all-white deck, it's "understood" that they're either white or artifact cards. It wasn't difficult to follow once I saw that's how you wanted to do things your way. So you have your way and I have mine.

Pay 2 life to Mutagenic Growth my Corrupter.
Responses/further responses/dmg resolves?

Spiderman: 16
Poison: 0
Hand: 3 - never subtracted my Primal Bellow from last turn
Library: 47
Battlefield:

(U,U,U,U) Forest x4

(T) Viridian Corrupter (2/2; Infect; When ~ ETB, destroy target artifact)
(T) Insect creature token (1/1; Infect.)
(T) Insect creature token (1/1; Infect.)
(T) Insect creature token (1/1; Infect.)


Graveyard: Mutagenic Growth, Carrion Call, Carrion Call, Primal Bellow, Mutagenic Growth
Exile:

====================================================================================================

Oversoul: 20
Poison: 0
Hand: 3
Library: 45
Battlefield:

(T,T,T,T,T) Plains x5
(U) Dread Statuary (T: C; 4: becomes a 4/2 golem artifact creature ueot.)

(U) Bonehoard (Living Weapon; Equipped creature gets +X/+X, where X is the number of creature cards in all graveyards. Equip 2.)
(U) Skinwing (Living Weapon; Equipped creature gets +2/+2 and flying. Equip 6.)

(S) Stoneforge Mystic (1/2; When it etb, it can search for an equipment for me to to put into my hand. 1W,T: I put an equipment card from my hand onto the battlefield.)
(S) Germ token (2/2; Flying.) *skinwinged*


Graveyard: Flayer Husk, Leonin Skyhunter, Stoneforge Mystic, Porcelain Legionnaire
Exile:

 

[Oversoul]

I wanted to *be sure* that that was what you meant. So yes, you did need to expand on what your single statement. Post #53 was fine. Post #54 was frankly, condescending and obnoxious.

So I did need to expand (unlike post #53), but once I did (like in post #54) it was condescending and obnoxious for me to do so? Catch-22.

And seriously? You really have a problem with me cutting out vowels and abbreviating words like Mountain now? When I've been doing it forever, including past games we've played like Commander or Tribal or whatever?

Nah. I've been poking fun at it for a while now, off an on. Maybe not as far back as "forever" but it amuses me. I don't have a problem with it. And if you think I do, then you completely missed my point. So I'll try to break it down...

1. I pointed out the oddity of using "damage resolves" in post #50. At the time, I assumed you'd just forgotten about it, that you'd gotten used to saying it that way, whatever.
2. You said that you didn't know what I meant in post #51. And then you repeated the "damage resolves" phrase, leading me to believe that you didn't get it.
3. So then in post #54 I tried a more thorough explanation, just to be as clear as possible, with a bit of a reminder about what the rules had changed from.
4. You indicated in post #55 that you did know the difference, and that it was just the way that you wanted to say it. That's it's something you've been doing for a long time.
5. So then in post #56, I said that ultimately, now that I have confirmation that we do understand the rules themselves in the same way and that you're using different words because you want to, it's not really a problem. As part of this, I contrasted it with your system of abbreviations.

Because, you see, that's why I made multiple posts about it and why I wanted clarification. When you abbreviate "damage" to "dmg" I can see a rationale for it: technically it does save time and space. It's like how both of us use "U" for "untapped" and "T" for tapped. You go further and abbreviate other things, but in a manner that is tailored to your personal preferences and that's the part that amuses me and that I was poking fun at by doing things like changing "Mt" to "Meitnerium." Like, you don't abbreviate Forest, because you don't appear to want to. And that's fine. For once in history, when I was bringing up your abbreviations, it wasn't in the context of making fun of it, but of admitting that it does have a function. And that's the time you take issue with it? Go figure. So anyway, the point of contrast was that your abbreviations do technically constitute a shortcut, so even if it's not one that I'd be inclined to employ myself, I can see a rationale behind it, whereas throwing in the word "resolves" isn't a shortcut, but a longcut. And at first it threw me off, but once we're on the same page as far as what is meant, it doesn't really matter.

Including "Damage resolves", even after the M10 rules change? Look, to me, in this instance, "resolves" is the same as "dealt", especially that I'm not saying stuff like "combat damage on the stack, responses?" - Which I have before M10, when it *did* apply. It seems pretty clear that if no one has any (further) responses at the Blockers Declared step, it's going to the Combat Damage step and straight through to be being dealt/resolved.

Right, like I said it certainly doesn't cause any problems in this instance.

You want to get technical with the rules, you never said if you were going to mulligan or not after I said I was, both times.

It seems like you're just lashing out at this point, when there's a pretty obvious distinction. I think I've made myself pretty clear here, but just in case...

I am not advocating for thorough rules enforcement here and really, I don't see how games would ever get done if half the posts in these games were just "pass priority" or whatever. That just wouldn't work. But if you made some reference like "not taking manaburn" then I would be inclined to point out the incongruity, even though it has no bearing on the gameplay. This isn't about nitpicking the rules. Quite the opposite: I commented on it in the first place because it was a reference to an obsolete rule.

You want to talk about understanding the board state, you don't color your cards on the battlefield, which has been the accepted way of displaying useful information. Yeah, I get it's easier just to type it and not include the tags or use the drop down color box. Or even assume that because you're playing an all-white deck, it's "understood" that they're either white or artifact cards. It wasn't difficult to follow once I saw that's how you wanted to do things your way.

Whoa! Hold on there. I suppose that I missed a memo. No really, that's entirely possible...

I originally learned this whole CPA system of playing games over message board posts from you. It was like a dozen years ago and I don't expect you to remember it, but there was nothing in there about changing font colors on cards and neither of us colored any of our card names. Of course I did see people doing this later, but I assumed that it was just something they thought was cool (it might also be that the forum software changed to make it easier). I had no idea that at some point it became an accepted standard. I wish someone had told me earlier. I can add colors to my cards if you like.

So you have your way and I have mine.

Yes, that's what I was saying! And if you just said something about how you knew the rules changed and you preferred to use "resolves" to refer to moving on to the next step, I'd probably have thought it was weird (still do), but I'd get it. Instead you expressed confusion and then acted like I did something wrong when I tried to clarify. It seems like you thought one or more of my posts was meant to be antagonistic, when really it was just me trying to be sure we were on the same page so that we could move on with the game. Part of me trying to be sure we were on the same page was a bit of ribbing, I suppose, but that's just me. I thought of it as good-natured. Like you said, we've been doing these games forever. At some point, I'm going to make my stupid comments that I think are totally witty. It's just something that's bound to happen. It doesn't seem that bad. I mean, if this is bad, Turgy has given me a way harder time.

Pay 2 life to Mutagenic Growth my Corrupter.
Responses/further responses/dmg resolves?

I've got nothing but incredulity.

Some day, you are going to run out of instants. And if I'm still alive when that day comes, well, look out!

 

[Spiderman]

1. I pointed out the oddity of using "damage resolves" in post #50. At the time, I assumed you'd just forgotten about it, that you'd gotten used to saying it that way, whatever.

Probably.

2. You said that you didn't know what I meant in post #51. And then you repeated the "damage resolves" phrase, leading me to believe that you didn't get it.

I did get it which I explained further. I wasn't sure what *YOU* meant because I wanted to give you plenty of time to respond During Blockers, hence my said explanation. I didn't want to blow through it and have you say "wait a second, back up now".

3. So then in post #54 I tried a more thorough explanation, just to be as clear as possible, with a bit of a reminder about what the rules had change from.

And here's where the breakdown occurred and what you missed. Like I said, Post #53 was enough and clear to me that you were talking about the Combat Damage step and not the Declare Blockers step. Post #54 was just condescending. You may not have intended it that way, but that's how it came across, especially since it came after #53 without giving me a chance to respond to it.

For once in history, when I was bringing up your abbreviations, it wasn't in the context of making fun of it, but of admitting that it does have a function. And that's the time you take issue with it?

Bringing it up *once* in the beginning would have seemed like "ribbing" or "making fun in a good-natured way", but you kept on doing it *and* then brought it up here. At that point, it came across as bothering to you. If it wasn't, great, but you gotta know when to stop because continually doing it during the same game makes it get old fast.

=====================================================================================================
Germ and Insect die, you take 2 Poison ctrs.


Done
Spiderman: 16
Poison: 0
Hand: 3
Library: 47
Battlefield:

(U,U,U,U) Forest x4

(T) Viridian Corrupter (2/2; Infect; When ~ ETB, destroy target artifact)
(T) Insect creature token (1/1; Infect.)
(T) Insect creature token (1/1; Infect.)

Exile:

====================================================================================================

Oversoul: 20
Poison: 2
Hand: 3
Library: 45
Battlefield:

(T,T,T,T,T) Plains x5
(U) Dread Statuary (T: C; 4: becomes a 4/2 golem artifact creature ueot.)

(U) Bonehoard (Living Weapon; Equipped creature gets +X/+X, where X is the number of creature cards in all graveyards. Equip 2.)
(U) Skinwing (Living Weapon; Equipped creature gets +2/+2 and flying. Equip 6.)

(S) Stoneforge Mystic (1/2; When it etb, it can search for an equipment for me to to put into my hand. 1W,T: I put an equipment card from my hand onto the battlefield.)


Graveyard: Flayer Husk, Leonin Skyhunter, Stoneforge Mystic, Porcelain Legionnaire
Exile:

 

[Oversoul]

I did get it which I explained further. I wasn't sure what *YOU* meant because I wanted to give you plenty of time to respond During Blockers, hence my said explanation. I didn't want to blow through it and have you say "wait a second, back up now".

Well, it doesn't hurt to be sure.

And here's where the breakdown occurred and what you missed. Like I said, Post #53 was enough and clear to me that you were talking about the Combat Damage step and not the Declare Blockers step. Post #54 was just condescending. You may not have intended it that way, but that's how it came across, especially since it came after #53 without giving me a chance to respond to it.

It was only a separate post because I thought after seeing that you seemed confused, I'd better be detailed. I don't really see a technical explanation of the rules as condescending and I don't see problems with having reminders sometimes. That goes for me too. Here's the thing, though. If you make a technically outdated rules reference and I point it out, and then you express confusion on the point ("Not sure what you mean"), it sure looks to me like something that calls for clarification of the rules. Because it's not like I mentioned it and then you said, "Yeah, I just like saying it that way." You said, "Not sure what you mean." So I wanted to make sure that what I meant was crystal clear. It doesn't mean that you are stupid or that you can't say things the way you want to. I really don't think that's too much, in context. Maybe that's where we disagree. But from where I'm sitting, the whole thing with you calling it obnoxious or condescending seems pretty bizarre. Like it almost reads as...

"<reference to obsolete rule>"
"The rules don't work that way anymore."
"Why, whatever are you talking about?"
"<Explains rules change>"
"Yes, I already knew all that. This is old hat."
"Well, why'd you say it the wrong way then?"
"How very condescending of you to give an unsolicited explanation of the rules."

Well no, I don't think that it was. Clearly you aren't/weren't reading it the same way I was, so you did interpret it as condescending. But yeah, I'm not seeing it.

Bringing it up *once* in the beginning would have seemed like "ribbing" or "making fun in a good-natured way", but you kept on doing it *and* then brought it up here. At that point, it came across as bothering to you. If it wasn't, great, but you gotta know when to stop because continually doing it during the same game makes it get old fast.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no! Like I said, that was the one time I wasn't mentioning it in jest. I think it was the first time ever. I was mentioning it as a point of contrast, because however different we feel about specific abbreviations, ultimately they are practical and functional. Like, I don't get why you say "Poison ctrs" instead of "Psn counters" or "Psn ctrs." You have some internal system for which words get typed out fully and which ones get abbreviated, and I have no idea how you make your selection but it doesn't really matter because it's your choice and it works. If it is comfortable for you, it does take up less space and fewer keystrokes, and some people really like being more efficient with that stuff, so there's an observable purpose to it. In constrast, to add text that used to have rules meaning and no longer does is categorically different. And I couldn't see a purpose to it (apparently the purpose is "it makes Spiderman happy" but I didn't know that at the time) so I was baffled.

Germ and Insect die, you take 2 Poison ctrs.

Shouldn't it be that I take 1 poison counter and Stoneforge Mystic becomes a 0/1?