What is a casual player of Magic, once and for all...

[Spiderman]

To me, having fun does not automatically mean I'm playing a "casual" game. Like the definitions in the first post, if there's a "tight" structure around every aspect of the game, it's not casual. I can still have fun within that structure though.

I agree with your second sentence though... you should have stopped there

 

[Killer Joe]

What is a casual player?

What I think some would like it to mean:
One who does not care for 'tournament style' play.

What I think it means:
One who defines themselves as having a non-competetive "Spirit" for the game.

~opposing camp~

What is a tournament player?

What I think some would like it to mean:
One who does not care for 'casual style' play.

What I think it means:
One who defines themselves as having a competetive "Spirit" for the game.

Is it possible to exude both mind sets? Yes.

 

[DÛke]

...well, Spiderman, if someone really has fun, there would be no "structures"...kinda like when we all first started the game...when we all began "casually".

With fun, all structures disappear (or at least fade), and with that...more fun comes in...demolishing even more structures...eventually leading to casuality.

...and YellowJacket - you have a perfect analogy.

 

[Spiderman]

Yellowjacket and DUke: I agree with what both of you just said. However, in YJ's case, what if the "tourney" mindset is 90% of the time, and the other is just 10%? Is that person really considered a casual player? Or just a "toe-dipper"?

And when I say tourney, I mean like what I said in my first post in this thread: someone who pretty much spends the majority of his/her free time testing out decks for competition in tournaments, either at stores or online, and tries to go to each and every PTQ in hopes of qualifying. Not necessarily someone who has a spare Saturday and goes to his/her local WOTC store for the tournament then (although if they're a regular and go every week and spend all their time preparing for it, they might qualify. That's what I'm talking about. The tournament format has become the "structure"; there's specific rules and specific cards and specific times you can play. It's not at the airport and saying "Hey, I've got my dwarf deck, wanna go against his Machine deck" or even "Hey, I've got my Fires deck, wanna go against his Skies deck" because even though those are tourney decks, it's the casual "pick-me-up" game.

Did that make sense or was it ramblings?

 

[DÛke]

...what was that, Spiderman!?

...maybe YellowJacket (or you) will be nice enough to translate it into English...

 

[Spiderman]

Okay, basically what I'm saying is that I agree with you guys general sentiments, just that there's a narrow case where someone is NOT a casual player, but a full-blown "serious" player. A person can have serious and casual traits, but if serious dominates over casual, then that person is really not casual after all.

 

[DÛke]

...what if "casual" dominates over "serious"?

I'm saying "casual" and "serious", and seriously, I don't know what exactly I'm referring to.

There's no point of pointing out who's casual and who's serious...or is there? I think this is my, like, third time saying it in these forums: does it matter, in any way, what a player is? As long as you enjoy a game...there's no point in pointing out who is what...I mean, you DID enjoy...nothin' else should matter...

Obviously, not all games are as fun as they should be due to some serious a**holes that are upon invasion everywhere...THAT'S when we could point out...when an a**holes ruins my day, you're dang right I'll confront him or her with whatever I have to say about a**holes like that...

...but other than that...there's no pointing out.

Basically, if I have fun, I shut up...and play again. If my game is ruined because of some completely 100% freak that doesn't know what kindness and humor smell like, than...prepare for some serious beating...physical, and mental.

 

[Spiderman]

If "casual" dominates "serious", then they're casual.

To see my definition of "serious", read my confusing post two above or my original post. If it's not in there. it's not "serious" (to me).

My point is whether you like it or not, there ARE some "non-casual" players. Everyone IS a player, no doubt about it, it's how you PLAY/prepare for the game for the majority of the time.

 

[DÛke]

...at least we AGREE about it's how you PLAY that kinda defines a player.

I never thought of the issue of preparation though...what is it? Net decks versus original creation? How you prepare is really associated with how much devotion and how much time you'd like to give to the game...or, how much time you actually HAVE. Once you figure out what to play, you could, then, choose to play "serious" or "casual". Casual is when you enable a fun atmosphere for all players, and winning is superfluous...and "serious" is when you focus on winning.

Note that a "casual" player with a "casual" deck that was prepared "casually" could still BE focusing on winning...which takes the essence out of the game, because that player would lose focus on the fun aspect, and refocus on winning. Therefore, that player is not really casual, or at least, is lacking the Spirit.

 

[FoundationOfRancor]

Zadok001 is right, he usuallly is.

 

[Spiderman]

DUke: Well, I think looking at preparation is just part of looking at the end goal of what you're trying to get out of the game. There's basically these scenarios:

A. Have lots of time, use it all to prepare for EVERY PTQ and PT you get so you can make money. Whether you're achieving those goals and winning, or losing, everything about this says Pro.

B. Have lots of time, don't use all of it to prepare for every PTQ and PT. A Pro wanna-be, kinda in between really (the goal's the same but just can't devote enough time).

C. Don't have lots of time but you have you spend it preparing for PTQs and PTs. Pro, because you're still spending every available moment devoted to Magic with a "money-winning" mindset.

D. Don't have lots of time and occasionally spend it on the PTQs and PT. Again, like B.

E. Have lots of time and spend every moment devoted to creating wacky decks in non-tourney or "casual" (local)tourney atmosphere. Casual. Even if it was a netdeck, since your goal is not to make money but just to play, I don't consider that serious enough (this is probably where you and YJ meet with me).

F. Have lots of time and only occasionally build wacky decks for the above goals in E. Casual.

G. Don't have lots of time but spend every moment for goals in E. Casual.

H. Don't have lots of time and only occasionally spend it building decks for goals in E. Casual.

You can see that it's mostly the goals that drive my thinking in "defining", but preparation plays a part.

Now, as I said before, a person in A can meet another person in A (say, in an airport) and play their netdecks against each other with nothing on the line. That would be a casual affair, a casual moment. But they're still not really casual players at heart. That was more like a "time-out" from their regular goals.

FoR: At first I thought Zadok's words held true, but the more I think about it, if a person in my A scenario above thinks he's a casual player despite spending every available moment going to PTQs and such, he's not really a casual player. To paraphrase, actions speak louder than "thoughts", in this case.

 

[DÛke]

...finally, I agree with you Spidey.

That's true.

I also agree about what you said to FoR.

Good job.

 

[Killer Joe]

Of course there's no simple answer to the question of I.D.ing casual/tourney players. I was just offering "bit-size" statements to lightly satisfy the topics appetite.
The whole notion of absolute identity for casual and/or tourney player is kind of absurd. I mean, what, we're gonna go to war with the opposing side? Sell to their renegade states deisel subs? (Oh, wait, wrong forum).
This is a question that will be debated a thousand more times by others (or us), right?

 

[Spiderman]

YJ: That is true, it will be a question forever debated by the masses; by people not on this board and by people coming after us.

All I was trying to say was that for a tiny sliver of the Magic populance, there are certain traits that when combined, can come together and most everyone can recognize that that sliver is indeed not casual. A tiny sliver... I guess you'd call it nitpicking .

 

[Killer Joe]

however, I agree.