Type I championships
- Thread starter Oversoul
- Start date
T
train
Guest
I can't find any articles on it...
Oversoul
The Tentacled One
I didn't either. This is all I've been able to pull up so far...
http://www.starcitygames.com/ubbthr...&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#223935
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19132
http://www.starcitygames.com/ubbthr...&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1#223935
http://www.themanadrain.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19132
T
train
Guest
Seems mono-blue is still competitive...
no surprise there...
no surprise there...
Oversoul
The Tentacled One
Well, in Type I it hadn't shown up until this tournament. I know that you don't like monoblue, Train. But keep in mind that this is signifying the end of the U/R Fish reign, which is also pretty blue-heavy...
I guess I'm being facetious there though. Blue is pretty well ingrained in Type I. What I want to see is the return of monoblack to the forefront. Unrestricting Necro could help accomplish that...
I guess I'm being facetious there though. Blue is pretty well ingrained in Type I. What I want to see is the return of monoblack to the forefront. Unrestricting Necro could help accomplish that...
Oversoul
The Tentacled One
I do not think that I implied that...
Most of the good cards for monoblack are already unrestricted though. Necro, I THINK, could bring monoblack back completely as a respectable deck. That one move, unrestricting Necro, I mean, could do it. The other tools are already there. Whether or not that would be TOO much, I'm not entirely sure, but I think enough people are afraid of Necro that it isn't a candidate for unrestriction...
Demonic Consultation/Demonic Tutor would boost the power-level of several decks if unrestricted. I'm not sure what would dominate with either or both of them unrestricted, but I'm doubting it would be monoblack or even all that black-heavy...
I'm not even sure if anyone would use Doomsday unrestricted. But I do not see how it would give monoblack in particular boost in power...
Entomb might help some Dragon deck or something, although Bazaar is a far superior tool for that deck. It could possibly help Reanimator type decks or something. It might help monoblack too. I'm not sure.
Mind Twist could do it. Mind Twist could do a lot of things, actually. It's been either restricted or banned for as long as I've been playing. I'm not sure what devastating effects its unrestriction would have in store for the metagame. I would concede that it could definitely strengthen monoblack though...
Yawgmoth's Bargain wouldn't do much for monoblack. Its unrestriction would help two types of decks: insanely broken combo decks that kill just about everything in today's environment AND any decks that happen to be able to withstand that kind of power.
Yawgmoth's Will is another one I'm not sure about. I think it would help multicolored decks more than monoblack, but I'll put it in the same boat as Mind Twist. So I think that of the restricted black cards, there are three (Necropotence, Mind Twist, and Yawgmoth's Will) that could push monoblack control back into tier 1 if unrestricted. Of these, Necropotence seems the most likely to do so and Yawgmoth's Will seems to the most dangerous (not sure what would happen if it were unrestricted, but it wouldn't be pretty).
Most of the good cards for monoblack are already unrestricted though. Necro, I THINK, could bring monoblack back completely as a respectable deck. That one move, unrestricting Necro, I mean, could do it. The other tools are already there. Whether or not that would be TOO much, I'm not entirely sure, but I think enough people are afraid of Necro that it isn't a candidate for unrestriction...
Demonic Consultation/Demonic Tutor would boost the power-level of several decks if unrestricted. I'm not sure what would dominate with either or both of them unrestricted, but I'm doubting it would be monoblack or even all that black-heavy...
I'm not even sure if anyone would use Doomsday unrestricted. But I do not see how it would give monoblack in particular boost in power...
Entomb might help some Dragon deck or something, although Bazaar is a far superior tool for that deck. It could possibly help Reanimator type decks or something. It might help monoblack too. I'm not sure.
Mind Twist could do it. Mind Twist could do a lot of things, actually. It's been either restricted or banned for as long as I've been playing. I'm not sure what devastating effects its unrestriction would have in store for the metagame. I would concede that it could definitely strengthen monoblack though...
Yawgmoth's Bargain wouldn't do much for monoblack. Its unrestriction would help two types of decks: insanely broken combo decks that kill just about everything in today's environment AND any decks that happen to be able to withstand that kind of power.
Yawgmoth's Will is another one I'm not sure about. I think it would help multicolored decks more than monoblack, but I'll put it in the same boat as Mind Twist. So I think that of the restricted black cards, there are three (Necropotence, Mind Twist, and Yawgmoth's Will) that could push monoblack control back into tier 1 if unrestricted. Of these, Necropotence seems the most likely to do so and Yawgmoth's Will seems to the most dangerous (not sure what would happen if it were unrestricted, but it wouldn't be pretty).
You may not have intended to. But since you only mentioned Necro at first, that's what it meant to me. But maybe it was the first on your mind...
Adrian Sullivan just mentioned Yawgmoth's Will in an article from yesterday at magicthegathering. Don't know how much influence he has or if he's an outsider looking in, but I don't think it's coming off.
As long as Dark Ritual is unrestricted in Type 1, I don't think Necro (and maybe Bargain) are coming off. Like I said before about Dark Ritual, it turns Necro and any 3cc spell into 1 cc and having that much drawing power for 1 cc is pretty crazy.
Of course unrestricting any of those will probably make monoblack strong (to the point of dominating?), that's why they're restricted in the first place
Finally got to see the decklists...
A Fine Vintage Indeed
I think it's pretty cool that there was a diversity of decks. And I don't know about the "end" of U/R Fish - I think it's cool that a "cheap" deck could compete that far with the more expensive ones.
A Fine Vintage Indeed
I think it's pretty cool that there was a diversity of decks. And I don't know about the "end" of U/R Fish - I think it's cool that a "cheap" deck could compete that far with the more expensive ones.
Oversoul
The Tentacled One
I didn't say the end of the deck. I said the end of its "reign." It's been running rampant in tournaments a little TOO much. I think that was mainly because it was such a successful budget deck, and many who played it didn't really grasp how tough of a deck it was to pilot in some matchups.
By no stretch of the imagination is such a good deck (and a budget deck at that) going to vanish spontaneously. But now at least things have settled down to a more comfortable level...
It is really too bad that Rectal Agony didn't win the tournament, but oh well. That means people will be even more oblivious to the insane power of that deck when I finish getting the cards for my build...
Ah. Well, it seems a bit counter-intuitive since in general, people complain about the high cost of playing in Type 1, I wouldn't think U/R Fish would have such a problem. I mean, if such a budget deck is popular, it might draw in more people who think of other budget decks.
And since it is? was? beating other high cost decks (what's up with that $3000 deck? Is it the foils?), that's icing on the cake.
And since it is? was? beating other high cost decks (what's up with that $3000 deck? Is it the foils?), that's icing on the cake.
Oversoul
The Tentacled One
I am fairly certain that unrestricting Necro would bring back MBC in Type I. I also doubt this will be happening in the forseable future. That's what I meant earlier too...
As for without Necro, I don't think monoblack has the power to withstand the power artifacts have in today's metagame. If it did, it would be not just as good as U/R Fish, but probably better. I can see Parfait making a comeback though...
As for without Necro, I don't think monoblack has the power to withstand the power artifacts have in today's metagame. If it did, it would be not just as good as U/R Fish, but probably better. I can see Parfait making a comeback though...
E
Ephraim
Guest
Fish has been so successful lately because the format was getting topheavy. With a gross amount of 'Tog appearing, as of a few months ago, and with Stax variants and Slaver variants all susceptible to Fish's brand of hate, it was well-positioned to execute a coup. I find it very refreshing to know that the most broken decks in the format have to slow down a little bit and play with some answers, since their foil is a deck that can be constructed for a very low price. Less than $50, if you're willing to forgo Volcanic Islands, Ancestral Recall, and Mox Sapphire.
Oversoul
The Tentacled One
While I don't quite buy into the whole "Fish is just a metagame deck" talk that has been going around lately, I concur with what you are saying. I suppose the success of any new deck is dependent on the metagame and how many good matchups it has. Likewise, a deck can't succeed based on the metagame alone, and U/R Fish has proven itself as a good deck. Ophidian decks can be good too though, and I'm glad to see it back in action...
E
Ephraim
Guest
Don't get me wrong, Fish has mad synergy to complement its perfect blend of metagame choices. No deck in Type 1 that does well does so without cards that work well together -- and Fish's cards work together arguably better than the cards of any other deck in Type 1. By merit of being all approximately the same power level, no card draw in Fish is ever unwelcomed. This makes it one of the most consistent decks I've ever seen, a huge plus in a swingy format like Type 1.
However, in an environment that's collectively decided not to put up with it, Fish is a noticably worse deck. Of course, if only a small portion of the field is metagaming against Fish, then those decks will get creamed by the more broken decks, while not being prevalent enough to impact Fish's success (although they could easily ruin one or two Fish players' days.) What it does is to serve as a safety brake on the format. If things get a little too broken, there's now the looming threat that somebody will return to Fish, which handles unprepared broken decks.
However, in an environment that's collectively decided not to put up with it, Fish is a noticably worse deck. Of course, if only a small portion of the field is metagaming against Fish, then those decks will get creamed by the more broken decks, while not being prevalent enough to impact Fish's success (although they could easily ruin one or two Fish players' days.) What it does is to serve as a safety brake on the format. If things get a little too broken, there's now the looming threat that somebody will return to Fish, which handles unprepared broken decks.
T
train
Guest
I think MBC could actually hold it's own...
dropping a first turn damping matrix or null rod (as a second choice) would be all that is needed...
dropping a first turn damping matrix or null rod (as a second choice) would be all that is needed...
Ephraim: What is your experience with Type 1? Do you play casually? Tourney? Just follow the news?
Oversoul: So are you saying that without Necro and the other restricted cards being unrestricted, there is just no chance MBC can be a viable force in Type 1?
Oversoul: So are you saying that without Necro and the other restricted cards being unrestricted, there is just no chance MBC can be a viable force in Type 1?