the shock trend

[Dune Echo]

So is there anyone that doesn't feel Lightning Bolt should be brought back in favor of putting out lots of Shock clones?

I'd really like to see bolt back. Red would finally be able to have a R costing spell to deal with Lin Sivvi...

 

[Nyx]

What about a bolt with a drawback? Like:

Zortch
R
Instant
Target creature or player takes 3 damage and you take 1.

It's a shock clone that can kill Lin for R. But I'd rather see lightning bolt come back.

 

[Dune Echo]

While I do agree that that card idea above would be nice and IMO fairly balanced, I find it strangely disturbing that we can't consider putting Lightning Bolt back into the environment because of "balance" issues when way back in the beginning it was perfectly fine. Giant Growth is still in the environment and no one seems to complain about its balance except blue players.

I'm really not trying to sound snippy in particular, so please don't take offense, but is it too much to ask for non-watered down versions of cards?

I'm sick of Blaze when Disentigrate and Fireball were perfectly fine cards (I can understand the uncommon slot due to Limited though). I'm sick of Shock when Lightning Bolt was perfectly fine and didn't ruin anything.

While I truly applaud the environment for being balanced and extremely geared to what Magic was originally intended for--strategic creature battles and combos that interesting and not devestating--what is so wrong about putting red burn spells that aren't watered down versions of perfectly acceptable cards back into the enviroment?

I'm not asking for Deadguy Red back. I'm stating that the quintessential red burn spells need to be brought back because burn only becomes a problem when the enviroment is innundated with it like the Deadguy Red decks where. I don't want 12 Shocks. I only want 4 Lightning Bolt (and MAYBE 4 Seal of Flame/Assault because IMO, those cards are truly unique ideas) plus whatever red burn R&D feels like pumping out (Death Spark/Hammer of Bogardan anyone?). I don't want Incinerate back (that card was truly unfair for green and regenerators in general and was bad for the environment). I just want the true burn spells back.

 

[Spiderman]

I think WOTC felt Bolt was strong, maybe too strong, when they were designing Ice Age which was basically when Alpha/Beta was designed. It was originally in the set but was pulled in favor of Incinerate (I believe my post to Zadok a long time ago about Ancestral Recall being part of the 3-for-1 cycle alluded to this).

So this is right now coming from my memory, but I think WOTC DIDN'T think Bolt was balanced, for whatever reasons. It just took until 4th to get rid of it

 

[Dune Echo]

Is is simply an issue of perception then that Bolt was balanced? I do feel your point is very valid and has changed my opinion a bit.

Spiderman, let me ask this, and please don't think I'm trying to be confrontational. I'm simply curious. If Incinerate was put in for balance issues, why do you think it was pulled in favor of Shock, which broke R&D's own rules of set rotation (Tempest and Stronghold weren't supposed to be rotated in yet)? When was 6th rotated in? (I can't remember.) Was Urza's Destiny even out yet?

If R&D was going towards the balanced Type II they have now (where 3 toughness creatures are the best), I can see why they pulled Incinerate.

But if they pulled it to simply weaken red, that I feel is not fair. Scorching Lava just is not an acceptable substitute to me when compared to Disentigrate and Incinerate.

Burn is supposed to be able deal damage to both creatures and players and the only 3 damage spell you can get nowadays is RARE and in a large set, thus largely out of my wallet's grasp. Red needs a good 3 damage spell that can be easily bought or traded for or gotten in a pack. The only 3 damage spells I can think of that are in the set are either hard to get or only deal damage to one type of target.

So, I feel Lightning Bolt needs to be brought back. And is is the number one spell (last time I checked) on our voting booth to be returned.

 

[Spiderman]

I don't think you're being confrontational

Personally, I think it's a matter of perception.

I have no idea why Incinerate was pulled in favor of Shock; there might be an article somewhere from WOTC explaining that kind of reasoning (there was for Revised to 4th and 4th to 5th, I'm pretty sure). I think 6th was rotated in 1998 but again not positive. But I don't think Urza's Destiny was out.

My only guess is perhaps they pulled it just to shake up the environment a bit and it might come back later, either in basic set of expansion (witness the almight Atog ). But really, your guess is as good as mine.

I am of the view that Bolt could be brought back, as with Swords (another great removal spell that might be more balanced in today's environment).

 

[Landkiller]

Swords to Plowshares is broken.

Well, it's insanely good. If a sorcery version was made, at 2 cc, that would be fair. Although, a better removal for white is sorely needed.

 

[yawnmoth]

Zero had a good point - that the sets have been altered so as to make Shock the norm, now - perhapes if Lightning Bolt was in type 2, Lin Sivvi would be a 1/4 creature...
Also, I think that some of the older cards designed for lightning bolt still remain in type 2 today, making it shock less versatile than it otherwise would have been. I think Giant Growth and Healing Salve were both designed to counter Lightning Bolt, and the fact that they both remain in type 2 today is more nostalgia...