Stratagy: U/W Control - T2

[Killer Joe]

I am currently under the notion that "4 of each card" is a more consistant way of deck constructing than 3 or less.. For instance, I've seen decks (U/W control) that will have the standard '4x Counterspell' but will only have 2, 3 or 1 copies of the other counter magic spells like; 3x Thwart, 1x Foil, 2x Disrupt, etc...I don't understand the stratagy of this concept. I did read somewhere, a while ago, that having multiple ways of countering spells may lead your opponent to think you have 20 counters or more packed in your deck when really you only have 10 - 14 counters. I used to always construct a counter deck like this:
(old T2)
4x Counterspell
4x Mana Leak
4x Disapate
4x Dismiss
Always, always, always.
I made a current T2 U/W control deck last week using this configuration:
4x Counterspell
4x Absorb
4x Thwart
4x Foil
But, as I searched the 'evil internet' magic sites, I did not find a single "Top Whatever" deck with this configuration. Am I THAT smart to construct this or did I miss magic class the day we studied "How to build a sucessful U/W control deck"?
Any thoughts?

BTW, Spiderman/Istanbul, I don't think this the right forum for this thread, where would you suggest to post stratagy topics in the future?

 

[Spiderman]

I think the "4 of whatever" rule really depends on what your mana curve is and how useful it is to your deck.

In terms of counters, since Counterspell is 2cc, right in the middle of the mana curve, it's always good to have 4. Plus it doesn't have a drawback or conditions to the countering.

For other slots, I guess it depends what you want: a 1cc counter or some other 1cc drop. Same with 3cc and higher, 'cause then you start getting into casting creatures or something (Air Elemental, Morphling, whatever). Those slots are competing with each other.

With regards to your sidenote, I think this or CPA Magic Issues would be the right forum, so it might as well stay here.

 

[Baskil]

Ok, I'll try to explain it a little...
Look at all that is packed into a U/W deck, and what it would look like with four of every card.

Nevada Winner
4 Absorb 4 Absorb
2 Reviving Vapors 4 Reviving Vapors
4 Counterspell 4 Counterspell
4 Jeweled Spirit 4 Jeweled Spirit
4 Fact or Fiction 4 Fact or Fiction
2 Spiketail Hatchling 4 Spiketail Hatchling
3 Dominate 4 Dominate
2 Rout 4 Rout
2 Disenchant 4 Disenchant
2 Prohibit 4 Prohibit
3 Foil 4 Foil
4 Wrath of God 4 Wrath of God
4 Coastal Tower 4 Coastal Tower
4 Adarkar Wastes 4 Adarkar Wastes
9 Island 9 Island
1 Dust Bowl 4 Dust Bowl
2 Kor Haven 4 Kor Haven
5 Plains 5 Plains
61 cards 78 cards

Now while it isn't an exact science, you essential play the hell out of the deck. Then, if you notice that something is too excessive (like 4 Rout with 4 Wrath) you slice here and there. You also have to keep in mind how easily you can cast the spells in your deck. It's not an easy or short process, but it is worth it if you want your deck to become better.

 

[Killer Joe]

'Sculpting'?
That's kind of a neat template:
Start off with 4 of each card and scupt it down from there (of course taking into consideration whether it's excessive or not).
Yeah, four of Wrath and 4 of Rout would be kind of excessive.
Taking mana curve into consideration is also good.
Any other thoughts?

 

[Chaos Turtle]

Also consider the other cards in the environment.

Lobotomy, for example, is one reason I like to play with 2 each of Wrath of God and Rout; just in case the other guy nabs one, I can still draw the other.
Void has a similar effect on my deckbuilding.

 

[Gizmo]

The main thing is how conditionally useful the card is. ie, my Counterspell mix in my CounterWrath deck

2 Power Sink, excellent turns 2-4, gets a bit ropey after that and is bad in a mirrormatch as I tap out too much.
2 Prohibit, good on the playside, bad on the drawside.

(So I use 2 Prohibit, 2 Sink, as opposed to 4 of one card. They have their own strengths and weaknesses)

4 Counterspell, always good
4 Absorb, similarly
3 Thwart, poor turn 1-3 natch, and really best used when I tap out or in emergencies.

That`s the key. How much do you want to see the card in all circumstances?

 

[rkoelsch]

The situational counters he doesn't include 4 of
and the thwart even though not purely a situational counter it is one as it ACC is why it is included.
Price might be another determining factor. While most teams ensure that they have cards they need I think in States there are some people that play on their own who may not have 4 absorb

 

[Darsh]

Go to http://www.magiccampus.com , and read the articles The Rule of Four(go to the articles) and The Rule of Four More(on the front page), they helped me out a lot.

 

[DÛke]

...and constructed my decks on one rule: add 4 of what you want really bad, and add less of the card if you don't want to see it in your hand early.

A nice example would be from my T2 Black control that we just got done "revising" in the decks section:

4x Stupor
3x Addle
2x Unmask
1x Hypnotic Cloud

I have 4 Stupor because I really want to get at least 1 Stupor in my opening hand or as soon as virtually possible. Addle is a good card too, but I don't want to draw it as badly as Stupor, therefore, I only have 3. Unmask is a really good card early game, but due to the deck's construction, playing the alternative casting cost would hurt the deck, so I have 2: if I draw them early, I'll play them using alternative casting costs (taking risky chances), and if I draw them late game, then they're just normal Coercion, which is their purpose in the deck. I have 1 Hypnotic Cloud because in no way would I want to see it in my opening hand or any time soon. If I draw it early, I'll make use of it, if I don't draw it early, which is more likely the case since I only have 1, I'll play it with it's Kicker, making my opponent's hand suffer.

That's the rule I've always followed when deciding how many copies of a card I want in a deck.

 

[Smithy]

That's why tutors and card drawing engines are so hot.

Consider, in a U/W Control deck;
Fact or Fiction x4
Accumulated Knowledge x4
Mystical Tutor x4
As a card drawing engine this is awsome, and changes, the concept of the ammount of cards of a particular type you need in a deck.

If you have 4 main deck Wraths you effectively have more

 

[DÛke]

...in which I believe a well-built deck should not feel the need for Tutors. A fine deck should be able to pull itself together without such needs.

 

[Duel]

When you build a deck, you must choose between consistency and utility. You vary depending on how many searcher you have, and how much redundancy is built in.

Example: deadguy red. little to no utility needed, 4 of every card. High aggro-redundancy.

Example: The Deck. High utility. Something for eveything and a lot of searchers. 1 or 2 of a great deal of cards.

IN GENERAL beatdown decks run more redundancy, because they rely on keeping threats coming out. Combo walks the line with alot of the cards it needs and searchers, because it wants to draw them. Control has a fairly low redundancy ratio, because it's backed up by counters and searchers, and needs something to solve any problem.