New Spellshapers on mtgnews...

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FoundationOfRancor

Guest
Have you guys seen the new cards on mtgnews.com? is it just me or are the INCREDIBLY BROKEN!!?? I hope these are fake but I thought were going AWAY from these 3rd turn kills. Anyway, what do you guys think the legends do?
 
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Zadok001

Guest
Well, neither one of those are third turn kill-esque. Both are stalling cards (well, maybe not Mr. Flicker, I'll get to him in a minute), they lengthen the game, not shorten it.

Generally, I don't like the Fatigue one. It's not bad, good for a lock, but seems very similar to Seismic Mage, i.e., everyone thought it was a solid lock 'til people got around to trying it. Still good for a fun deck, though. I can see a Howling Mine, Fatigue Guy, Island Sanctuary, and Stroke of Genious deck being pretty fun in Multiplayer. And there's that rumor about a 3UU enchantment that give YOU a Howling Mine, at the cost of discarding your hand once. Could be fun... :)

Flicker Man! Oh, yeah! This is my kind of card: Versitility out the ying yang! At least, it will if they don't add that 'play only as a sorcery' clause. I think they will, 'cause this guy is some sweet! While untapped, it makes every permanent untargetable at your discresion. It removes attacking creatures from combat, gives out summoning sickness, reuses 187 effects, forces repayment of echo, removes tokens from the game, and more! God, please don't let them add the evil Sorcery phrase...

"No, you get to pay echo _again_!"
 
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FoundationOfRancor

Guest
I didnt mean that those cards were to bring about 1st turn kills. Its just that since these cards seem so strong, others in the set probablly will be too.
 
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The Magic Jackal

Guest
If you do remember, mtgnews had a lot of "fake" MM cards posted once. I was checking out their old records and came across them. It's pretty fun to look back now and see that kind of stuff.

As for the proposed prophecy cards, i doubt that they'll make a spellshaper vampiric tutor. Let's see, how broken would it be to discard a card for any card in your deck? Even if it had a drawback such as you had to sac the guy too, it would still be cheap. 4 vampiric tutors in a deck are bad enough why do we have to have eight?

I do hope that they make tangarth. When was the last time red had a good legend? oh, never. Maybe red will start to kick major ass with the release of prophecy. Just remember, i said it first, rebels will get what is coming to them.

[Edited by The Magic Jackal (03-30-2000 at 02:24 PM).]
 
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theorgg

Guest
FLICKERMANIA!

I HOPE that they leave the flickerman alone.
He's not Too good, but he IS versital. what flicker should have been: an instant!


and Jacklye (OR SOMBODy) edit your
ahahahahahahahahah
to be a BIT shorter.
ahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah is O.K.
what you did is insanity
 
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Zadok001

Guest
Theo, you're asking for it! (Thought I'd post this for you, Jackal, but feel free to join in... :) J/K)

"Flame the Orgg! No, wait, don't eat me! J/K."
 
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Mr_Pestilence

Guest
The "no draw" spellshaper and the "flickering" spellshapers are horribly broken. If WotC didn't have a track record of putting lots of broken cards in the last set of a cycle, I would swear they're fakes.

As it is, I just don't know. They created Squee to make spellshapers viable, so we can be sure there are some in Prophecy.

I guess the last set in any given cycle is the unofficial dumping ground for problem or overpowered cards. This way, instead of admitting they made a mistake, WotC can wait the shortest possible time (about 16 months) until the cards rotate out.

But back to the cards in question. Assuming they are real, why were they made? Lots of players have praised MM & Nemesis because it doesn't concentrate on overpowered cards that ruin (or at least define) the environment. I think the best players still win, but they are now forced to actually out-play and out-think their opponents, instead of using a deck that basically plays itself and auto-wins, no matter what the opponent does.

Now comes Prophecy, with a slew of broken cards, and now we're back to cheesy combo decks that let one player play solitaire while the other one fumes. Is this fun or fair? How does it feel to not draw any cards after the third turn?

There are always people who say, "So it's a combo deck, deal with it by playing x,y,z". But in this case, you never get to x, y, and z because your opponent just won't let you. I think this is ridiculous. This is the best control method possible. Instead of countering various spells, or blowing up land, or keeping the board clear with a Masticore, why not just tell your opponent "By the way, you can't draw any more cards for the rest of the game"? Squee + the No Draw Spellshaper = a Vice Grip lock. Protect your spellshaper for a couple of turns, and the game is yours, as your opponent cannot access any further resources to deal with the problem. Maybe this is why they made a cousin for Shock, and alternate casting cost methods of dealing with creatures?

Anyway, I hope this rant is unnecessary, and the cards I mentioned are just rumors, or I predict even more people voting with their feet and leaving the game.
 
C

Crackdown

Guest
Does anyone else feel that perhaps WotC is leaking some card data to get a read on whether the cards are too powerful?

Assuming that the cards are being planned, leaking the data for MTG community discussion allows them time to alter the cards' text. They've received a lot of heat lately (AW et al) for releasing cards that had to be errated immediately or outright banned.

The Mindgamer will not survive as it reads. It might become a fade 2, it might require sac creature for activation, etc., if it survives at all. Something will happen because the outrage is already mounting on MTG boards.

The Flickering spellshaper will have to be changed also. It's just too powerful. Even Bethmo acknowldged that Flicker had to be a sorcery:

Flicker
Color=White Type=Sorcery Cost=1W UD(R1)
Text(UD): Remove target nontoken permanent from the game, then return it to play under its owner's control.

This could be used to make the target of another spell or ability illegal if this wasn't a Sorcery (which makes it really hard to do that). This is because the Flickered permanent leaves play and then returns as a completely differnt permanent, and the targeted spell will not recognize it. [D'Angelo 99/06/18]

What non-token permanent are they thinking white should be able to flicker? (actually, given the token generation of green, they should let the spellshaper flicker the pesky tokens into oblivion.) Is there something in MBC that stands out as a target for white (either a white card or as a defensive play)?

Maybe we're all just beta testers now.



[Edited by Crackdown (03-30-2000 at 02:15 PM).]
 
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Mr_Pestilence

Guest
I think you're right on the money. Remember when the Parallax cards were "leaked" early and various people came up with abusive combos? WotC issued errata for cards that were not even legal yet, before they had been released!

This tells me that the "leak" was intentional, getting the gaming community to do virtual playtesting for them (and for free, no less). This is a huge contrast with past WotC policy, under which they jealously guarded all information about upcoming releases, and would never speak about specific cards.

While it is certainly too late to change the text on cards (they've already been printed or are printing now), they can have errata ready to go for the Pre-release.
 
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Chaos Turtle

Guest
These cards are already printed, y'all.
If these are in fact real cards, they will not have functional changes (fading added or whatever) made to them. If they will have those abilties, they already have them.

I think that these cards have simply been misreported, and that (especially in the case of the Flicker one) there is some very important bit of text that hasn't been included.
 
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galtwish

Guest
These cards were probably sent to the printers two months ago, so the text we have been "leaked" may have been from playtesting that helped fix the real text. The Flicker Guy is bad, but the No Draw guy is terrrible for game balance. I don't think we will actually see the latter. As far as the Avatars, I hope we get some awesome, skull-crushing creatures, but I would think that they will be pretty balanced. R&D doesn't usually print abusive creatures (except for Rector and Hippie), so I don't really fear the creature spells. Its the cards that allow you to bend the laws of the game universe for a turn or at instant speed that suck the fun out of the game. As long as we don't see an X spell that does something other than damage or gain life, or another broken Blue card, the set should balance itself out.

Erik
 
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Gizmo

Guest
I think we should apply a little perspective to this, as people seem to be going off the deep end a little.

Okay, these guys have superb abilities - but has there ever been a 1/1 for 3cc that is 'broken'?
No, I didn`t think so.

Fatigue-Man is basically a Zur`s Wierding - that`s the closest analogous effect althouhg I admit it is very different in actual wording.
Captain Flicker is another combat effect dude - he`ll completely wreck limited but in constructed he seems way vulnerable for what he does (replaces Fading, fizzles targetted removal, kills local Enchantments). He`s a swiss army knife, sure, but most decks are using Sniper Rifles and TacNukes so I don`t think it`s going to be overstrong.

David Sutcliffe
TEAM CAND!MAN
http://members.tripod.co.uk/candiman/index.htm
 
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Zadok001

Guest
Excellent points, Gizmo.

But Flickerman is more of a TacNuke swiss army knife. The discard is bad, but hey, this guy almost always can get you a nice advantage for whatever card you discard. Take out a blocker, which can be time advantage or at least card equality. Flicker a fading guy, earning time. Flicker an echo creature, gain some time. A powerful, crushing effect if utilized well.

I'm not so excited about the Fatigueman. If you'll notice, all the popular spellshapers are of good cards: This guy is a BAD card made 'shaper. Reusability makes him much better, but he's still a 1/1. If a deck can't deal with that, it's either green (in which case it just beats down the Fatigueman's owner) or BAD.

It's not as bad as it looks. I personally believe both these cards to be fairly well balanced, even if fairly strong. Perhaps, at most, Creeping Mold level. But not broken.

"Flickerman: The new Superman."
 
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theorgg

Guest
If Flickerman sees print, I truly believe I will be so happy as to cry.

unless it says only play as a sorcery.

Flicker should have been an instant. plain and simple. It's just too bad as a sorcery and too good as an instant.

the 'man will give an instant flicker that is similar to mommy of runes.
except eisier to kill and not as economic.
 
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galtwish

Guest
The Flicker Guy will suck as far as game balance. He is just as powerful as Morphling in limited, just more vulnerable. Fading creature or enchantment? Not any more. Saprolig Burst, Parallax Wave, Parallax Tide...the list goes on. I hope most of the cards are fake, including the Mercenary "Show and Tell" guy.

Erik
 
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Chaos Turtle

Guest
Actually, Flickering a fader offsets the discard of a card, as the dicarded card is replaced essentially by a "new" (reset) fading card.

I tend to agree with Gizmo that the cards are probably not too overpowered. I remember everyone screaing that Seismic Mage would allow Landkill Red to run rampant, but it's not happened.

After all, it's just a little critter. Nothing that a Massacre won't solve.
 
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