Just out of curiosity...

[Oversoul]

As many of you probably are already aware, I know pretty much nothing about Standard...

When the cards for COK were being revealed, I heard (here as well as some other places) comments to the effect of Kamigawa having a very insignificant effect on Standard (Standard would be mostly Mirrodin block).

Well, now that the first set of Kamigawa is actually out there and we know all the cards in it, does that still seem to be the case to those of you who thought so earlier? Or those of you who didn't think so before, what do you think now?

 

[orgg]

I think that Kinky Jinky is going to crack some heads open this weekend, for sure.

It's the new 'I Win' combo deck that isn't Tooth and Nail. At least w/ Intruder Alarm and a non-legendary creature.

 

[Oversoul]

What cards are in it?

 

[Mr_Pestilence]

I played in the GA state championships (took 14th out of 155, btw) and except for Kiki-Jiki and Sakura Tribe Elder, I didn't see any CoK cards making an impact.

Cranial Extraction was played, but it didn't seem to really hurt players w/ good decks.

I did see some of the Legendary lands being played (although for the life of me, I don't understand why), Horobi, Death's Wail, Kamura, Master Yamabushi and a Tooth/Nail deck with multiple Kokusho, the Evening Stars.

Despite playing Affinity, I didn't see a single copy of Imi Statue (you know, the latest card "supposed" to stop Affinity).

So, I would have to say that for now, CoK's impact on Standard has been minimal at best.

 

[Istanbul]

Imi Statue + Relic Barrier...

Doesn't stop affinity, but sure as hell slows it down.

 

[Killer Joe]

I think Flores' articles on Starcity scared most people away from UW Control. Mr. P, didja see any on yer way to the top?

I didn't play in states but I saw alot of Affinity and UG Control listed in the T8's around the country.

I think the Legendary Lands are there as suido Wastelands, you know, trying to predict that folks would use them to untap ledgends or prevcent damage to them. Maybe.

 

[Oversoul]

Suido Wastelands?

 

[Killer Joe]

Say they have Minamo, School at Water's Edge in play and they're wrecking you because they keep untapping their ledgend creature for some spectacular effect against you. You just plop down your own copy and wah-lah! It goes away. Right?

 

[Oversoul]

Then I think you mean pseudo-Wasteland...

That doesn't seem to be a likely occurence, but I guess it definitely is possible...

 

[Spiderman]

That's why the Legend rule got changed, so if you drew your Legend second, it wouldn't be a wasted card in your hand

 

[Oversoul]

That only affects formats where the cardpool is small enough that both players are likely to use the same legends. Elsewhere they are dead draws like always...

 

[Spiderman]

How are they dead draws if your opponent isn't using the same legends as you are? If they're not using the same legends, then you can play them when you get them without fear of getting them buried (by your opponent playing the same legend).

 

[Mr_Pestilence]

Nope. Nary a U/W deck in site. In fact, I didn't see a White card being played all day, and the only Blue cards I saw were Thoughtcast in Affinity, and some Rogue playing Affinity w/ Mana Leak.

 

[Oversoul]

Originally posted by Spiderman
How are they dead draws if your opponent isn't using the same legends as you are? If they're not using the same legends, then you can play them when you get them without fear of getting them buried (by your opponent playing the same legend).

In multiples. Obviously they can't be dead draws if you only have one.

 

[Rooser]

You guys, playing with one copy of the legendary lands in any deck with legends where you are running the color anyway is really a no-brainer. Here's why:

1) Playing with only one copy does not risk you finding dead draws.
2) The lands don't come into play tapped and they make colored mana. They do not hurt your mana consistency at all.
3) This is the most important one, IMO - They dont get blown up by Sundering Titan, DERF!
4) They randomly hose Horobi - a popular and powerful card mind you.
5) The abilities might not be worth building around but if you got any legends in your deck I don't see why you would complain about having an extra ability to toy with.

The key here isn't that they are awesome or worth building a deck around, it's that they are strictly better than a basic land so long as you play only one copy, so why the heck not run it?

If I gots a big dragon legend running around in my deck I don't see why I should complain about replacing one island with a Minamo so that my dragon can have defacto vigilance if I need him to. Or why not replace one forest with Okina so that my big dragon can be even bigger, which is especially nice when he squares off against the other dragons. Minamo still works just like an island in the situations where I need it to, and Okina works just like a forest, so I'm not risking anything by playing it.

This is why almost every non-basic land out there either:

1) comes into play tapped
2) doesn't make colored mana
or 3) hurts you in some fashion when you use it.

R&D usually has to slap on at least one of these things so that they don't make too many lands which are strictly better than basic lands. Whenever they do make lands which are strictly better, then they end up watching everybody put them in their deck, even when their advantages are very minimal such as with these legendary lands.

 

[Oversoul]

I thought we were talking about the ones that eat your life for effects. The five that are essentially basic lands with possible-to-use abilities are obvious choices for one-ofs in any deck--in COK block or Standard anyway...

In a real format Back to Basics, Blood Moon, Price of Progress, Wasteland...

 

[Rooser]

Well the ones that make colorless mana and come into play tapped are obviously not strictly better than anything - so they should only go into decks that can actually use them. Boseiju makes sense in decks that rely on big sorceries and run specific land searching, (Sylvan Scrying, Reap nad sow, etc.)

Oh, and obviously they get a lot worse outside of Standard. But you started the thread by talking about States decks, so I assumed keeping the thread Standard was okay.

 

[Oversoul]

I wasn't referring specifically to States decks, but the general impression that CoK has had on Standard.

I agree with the sentiment that in Standard (and CoK block perhaps?) the five legendary lands that have no real drawbacks are one-ofs in decks of their colors, because there isn't a reason not to run them.

The other legendary lands I am less than impressed with, although Boseiju at least has some potential...

 

[Spiderman]

Originally posted by Oversoul
In multiples. Obviously they can't be dead draws if you only have one.

Ah, I was not thinking in that context since initially we were focused on opponent interaction.

 

[Oversoul]

Yeah, I can see why my earlier post could be misleading. Sorry about that.