I want you opinions of a mechanic I came up with...

R

Rooser

Guest
First of all, I want to thank anybody who gives me feedback in advance.

I'm being a nerd just like Shiro and making my own block with MSE. Anyway, one of the themes of the block is your library. I'm sort of looking to do for the library what Odyssey block did for the graveyard, in other words, making the library a functional place for cards to be. There will be a lot of placing cards on top of the library and a lot of shuffling things into the library.

Well, that actually has little to do with this mechanic idea, but I wanted you to know all that before suggesting anything. I want the opinions of others to help me balance the rules for this mechanic so it won't result in any restrictive design ideas for cards that use it. You'll see what I mean once I explain the mechanic...

The mechanic idea in question is to be called "Memory" and it will work kind of like Buyback. Here is what I got so far. Read it carefully, it's nuanced.

Whenever a card with memory is put into the graveyard from anywhere and its owner has at least one card in hand, its owner must shuffle a card in hand into owner's library* and return the card with memory to their hand**.

Okay, first I'd like to point out that activating this ability isn't optional. Obviously the recursive potential is alluring, but it becomes a drawback as the card eats away your hand; it can be very hard to get rid of, (It'll only ever stay in the graveyard once your hand is empty).

It triggers on going to the graveyard from anywhere, so if it gets destroyed, discarded, milled away, entombed, countered, or if it simply resolves, (Assuming the card in question is an instant or sorcery), the ability will trigger. If you play with too many memory cards, you'll soon find that that's all you can keep in your hand.

Anyway, here's what I want your help with:

*Instead of shuffling a card away, should it be placed on top of the library instead? Both have their strategic ramifications. Also, should the player have the ability to choose which card they lose, or should it be random? Remember that the drawback of randomness is lessened if the card is simply put on top of the library instead of shuffled away.

** Also, I've been wondering if it would be better for the memory card to go to the top of the library instead of back to the hand. Again, each option has its strategic ramifications.

What I ultimately decide on will have a huge effect on how I design the cards.

To summarize, here are the three questions I want answered, which will result in one of 8 possible combinations.

1. How the card is lost: Either shuffled into library, or placed on top of library.

2. How the lost card is chosen: Randomly or not?

3. Where the memory card goes: Hand or on top of library?

Give me your thoughts please, and feel free to think outside the box I've carefully constructed for you.
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
1. I think the cards should actually go on the bottom of the library. Not sure if it matters, but I remember reading that WOTC said when they were play-testing cycling (I think), it originally was shuffled into the library but feedback showed that it was annoying to continually re-shuffle.

2. No preference either way, but let's go with random.

3. If it goes back into the hand, it's really just a variant of buyback, methinks. However, since I said random card above, this should go back in hand to maybe balance it out. If you got to choose the card in #2, maybe this should be on library.
 
1

13NoVa

Guest
would be very abusive if you make a instant card drawer, a burn card, or another cards.

cards that would be abusive:


Discard cards

burn cards

Instant Card drawers

token makers


think... splashing black to get that yawgmoths will, or drawing your deck out, then just making them uber-burn by discarding the lands and useless junk you pick up...
 
R

Rooser

Guest
I am aware of how this could be abused. I'm only going to put it on like 2 or 3 card of each color tops, and 1 of those 2 or 3 is going to be a creature, which the mechanic is not too abusive on.

Sending to the bottom of library is a good idea Spidey. And what you said about shuffling may make me rethink some of the other block mechanics, though I still want plenty of shuffle so that all the effects sending stuff to the bottom will result in them being shuffled in. Hmm....

PS - It doesn't feel like a buyback variant when you put the mechanic on a permanent, which I plan to do.
 
R

Rooser

Guest
Okay, I made my decision. To facilitate interaction with other block mechanics, it would actually make sense to send the lost card to the bottom of the library. Thanks Spidey. Here's how Memory will read:

Whenever this card is sent to the graveyard from anywhere and its owner has at least one card in hand, its owner must choose a card in hand and place it on the bottom of owner's library, then place this card on top of owner's library.

If you're interested to know, there will be three cycles of Memory cards, one for each rarity. The commons will be enchant creatures, the uncommons will be instants or sorceries, and the rares will be creatures, (Dragons specifically). Nothing should be too broken. Oh, I might make one land with memory too.

Thank you both for your input.
 
B

BigBlue

Guest
how about....

If a player a player has a card in their hand and ~this~ would be put in their graveyard, they instead choose a card from their hand and shuffle it in their library and place ~this~ in their hand.

Uber Buyback... I agree with Spidey that they should place it on the bottom of the deck instead of shuffle...

Of course there would be several questions of what to do if they had a card when the ability went on the stack and didn't have one when it resolved... current rules would put the card back into their hand since it was legal when it went on the stack.

I wasn't sure if you wanted the effect to happen only if they had a card in hand, but figured you did since it would be very broken otherwise.

Long Term Memory
U
Instant
Memory
Draw a card.

Remember Me?
1U
Creature - Wizard 1/1
Memory

Painful Memory
R
Instant
Memory
~This~ deals 1 point of damage to target creature or player.


Other catchy cardnames which I am out of ideas for (not really).

Memory Maker (M,T: Target Permanent gains Memory until EOT)
Short Term Memory (enchant Perm gains memory)
Forget-Me-Not (G creature, uncounterable Pro U)
I would really like to redo Memory Lapse.... :D
Forget-about-it (counter Target spell with Memory and remove it from the game)
Forget and Forget (target Permanent or Spell loses the memory ability until EOT)
 
R

Rooser

Guest
No, I like putting it back on top of your library instead. Making it difficult to cast more than once per turn counteracts the recursiveness, plus putting it on top of the library essentially makes you lose a draw. You lose a card in hand plus your next draw, making its recursion clash with massive card disadvantage. This will balance the mechanic nicely. As the card's usefulness wears thin, it will increasingly become a burden, not a blessing that it has memory. The recursion is FORCED for a reason, so that it ultimately results in card disadvantage.

And there is no way I'm making a memory card that deals direct damage to a player. Not even one point. That would just be too strong.
 
B

BigBlue

Guest
Then the ability is more of a liability and wouldn't be played with. Why create a new ability which no one would use? It would mesh it much more with Memory Lapse, keeping it in flavor I in an anal sense.

Of course the most BROKEN card you could use with this is Land Tax... I cast Memory Spell X 4 times turn, making say Long Term Memory a quasi tutor, albeit random. Land Tax would also get around your top of the deck restriction by garnering a shuffle every upkeep...

This is a powerful mechanic, the more I think about it (see storm, and for more effect use it WITH storm).

Horn of Greed + Storm Cauldron? sorry, just thinking out loud... Just add Vises... and the beauty of it is these are ALL artifacts, so you can add it to any color you'd like.... Say Green with Storm Seekers, Maro, and the other Maro... Talk about oxymoron... Green disliking Artifice. But I digress.
 
R

Rooser

Guest
Again, I'm not putting the mechanic on too many cards, and other mechanics of the block will let you get rid of a memory card without having to discard your hand, (Either by removing from the game from your hand, or placing it into your library).

Also, consider that a creature with memory can be very strong against control. I think this mechanic will work fine.
 
S

Shiro, Time Devourer

Guest
Originally posted by Rooser
First of all, I want to thank anybody who gives me feedback in advance.

I'm being a nerd just like Shiro and making my own block with MSE. Anyway, one of the themes of the block is your library. I'm sort of looking to do for the library what Odyssey block did for the graveyard, in other words, making the library a functional place for cards to be. There will be a lot of placing cards on top of the library and a lot of shuffling things into the library.

WeLcOmE, nEw CaRd CrEaToR!!!!!!
 
N

Nightstalkers

Guest
Place the card out of play so that any player may play it...

:rolleyes: Just trying to help
 
Top