CPA Voting Issues: Ethics
- Thread starter TomB
- Start date
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Densmore
Guest
By the very existence of articles on jedi mind tricks and "how to unnerve your opponent" proves that regardless of WOTC`s intentions there will always be that kind of behavior.
Also, foul play will always be involved as long as people without honor play the game.
Also, foul play will always be involved as long as people without honor play the game.
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terzarima
Guest
I was looking through the DCI page, and came upon something like what you're talking about now. It was about a tournament were two certain boys were playing in, one of the boys was in a tight spot, so he ofered the other boy a foil thran quarry to throw the match, so the boy sat and though, and another person behind the boy heard this and reported it to the head judge (the writer of the article) needless to say the boy was given a loss of match (if my memory suits me) But how many of us would've taken the foil thran quarry?
Killer Joe
New member
To answer the question: No.
And why should they? You can't regulate ethics, c'mon. If that were the case then there wouldv'e been no problem at the White House, at any time in it's history. The question I would ask: "Is Wiz Co. handing out harsh enough punishment for ethical infractions?" How about a 'three strikes you're out' policy for cheaters and 'unsportsman-like' warnings for the 'trash-talkers' that eventually can lead to game loss type punishments. Whatever they do DO, one still has the right to implement a play-style that'll increase thier chances of winning, as long as they don't break any rules (like keeping a 'Natural Balance' on your lap-not that any ONE would ever DO that!).
And why should they? You can't regulate ethics, c'mon. If that were the case then there wouldv'e been no problem at the White House, at any time in it's history. The question I would ask: "Is Wiz Co. handing out harsh enough punishment for ethical infractions?" How about a 'three strikes you're out' policy for cheaters and 'unsportsman-like' warnings for the 'trash-talkers' that eventually can lead to game loss type punishments. Whatever they do DO, one still has the right to implement a play-style that'll increase thier chances of winning, as long as they don't break any rules (like keeping a 'Natural Balance' on your lap-not that any ONE would ever DO that!).
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terzarima
Guest
Yellow Jacket I'm sure that you know the penalties change from judge to judge, it all depends on how they use the penalty guilines, a Judge going by the level 1 guilines, would probably only give that persona duel loss and a warning, while a judge going by level 4 penalty guidelines would prbably eject him from the tournament (That's just if I remember right) Ademis rushes to get his Judge Rules
[Edited by ademis22 on September 30th, 2000 at 09:45 PM]
[Edited by ademis22 on September 30th, 2000 at 09:45 PM]
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The Magic Jackal
Guest
I wouldn't have. I already have enough foil promos.
(Does anyone else think a foil prodical sorcerer was a pretty crappy foil this month a friday night magic? I mean, it's not even worth going! Now foil shocks and gaing growths are awesome, but foil prodical sorcerer?)
I don't think that wizards should be responible for taking care of sportsmanship and ethics. I think it falls more upon the judges, who are actually at the tournaments. I've seen numerous events where players have legally cheated other players. I've seen olders players intimadate younger players several times. This isn't considered cheating, but is being an ass to a little kid just so you can win a game really worth it?
That is just one example, but I don't think that there is a lot WoTC can do there. I think it should be in the hands of the judges to do something (If they can).
(Does anyone else think a foil prodical sorcerer was a pretty crappy foil this month a friday night magic? I mean, it's not even worth going! Now foil shocks and gaing growths are awesome, but foil prodical sorcerer?)
I don't think that wizards should be responible for taking care of sportsmanship and ethics. I think it falls more upon the judges, who are actually at the tournaments. I've seen numerous events where players have legally cheated other players. I've seen olders players intimadate younger players several times. This isn't considered cheating, but is being an ass to a little kid just so you can win a game really worth it?
That is just one example, but I don't think that there is a lot WoTC can do there. I think it should be in the hands of the judges to do something (If they can).
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terzarima
Guest
Jackal Put yourself in this persons shoes, this was a kid and a foil thran quarry would be enough to make him happy for a while. It does come down to ethics and beleifs, if that person beleives that the insentive is worth it, should they take the card?
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Darsh
Guest
I agree with Yellowjacket, there should be a "three strikes and your out" policy, then mabye people would be more "careful".
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terzarima
Guest
I don't think people should be so leaniant, everyone know this is bribery, and we've learned that bribery isn't morally correct. I saw one warning and then your out, because once is enough
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The Magic Jackal
Guest
ademis: If the kid knew what a foil quarry went for ($10 at the most) I think he would have decided that the win was a better decision. Now if it was a foil vampiric tutor....
Killer Joe
New member
Let's get down to brass tax here: It should be the responsibility of the PLAYERS to uphold integrity. If you have ever witnessed an infraction of the rules set by WotC or just plain rudeness by other players and have NOT said something, then it's we, the players, who are to blame. And for those of you who are of the opinion, "Why should I have to say something?", then don't complain, because you, may be part of the problem, not the solution.
Bottomline: Cheating or unsportsman-like behavior is wrong, and if you don't stop it, who will?
Bottomline: Cheating or unsportsman-like behavior is wrong, and if you don't stop it, who will?
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rakso
Guest
I guess a good thing about having a small but cozy tournament player base here in the Philippines is that I've never seen or heard anyone attempt to cheat or do funny things like stall in a competitive game. People are often good-natured about losing, and the most I've seen is presideboarding a Sealed Deck because one didn't like one's initial construction.
Makes you feel good about going to a tournament, if only they didn't last from morning until evening.
Makes you feel good about going to a tournament, if only they didn't last from morning until evening.
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Duel
Guest
Bottom line: Mind tricks are fine. Deck tricks bug me.
I don't care if they can stare like the bejeezus or try and bribe me. I care if they stack their deck.
"Hey, it's not like I slept with the judge's wife, or anything!"
I don't care if they can stare like the bejeezus or try and bribe me. I care if they stack their deck.
"Hey, it's not like I slept with the judge's wife, or anything!"
Killer Joe
New member
Even though you may have nerves of steel, that person, if not warned or repremanded, will find another victim.
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Almindhra
Guest
I do get all freaky inside when someone is doing mind tricks like that...I know I shouldn't...But I want to play for fun...And I don't like that people stack they're deck...Thats why if you know you're playing someone like that, take they're deck and instead of just splicing it, shuffle it...
but last night I was playing Magic against my friend Matt...I couldn't believe he wanted to...But he said that the way I was acting last night should be how I act at tournaments...lol...It was really funny...I don't know why I was so freaky...I singing retardedly...I was dancing in my seat...I was saying, I don't know what, but I was picking on him...It was a lot fun...Maybe it was pent up anxiety because I haven't played Magic in a long time...
but last night I was playing Magic against my friend Matt...I couldn't believe he wanted to...But he said that the way I was acting last night should be how I act at tournaments...lol...It was really funny...I don't know why I was so freaky...I singing retardedly...I was dancing in my seat...I was saying, I don't know what, but I was picking on him...It was a lot fun...Maybe it was pent up anxiety because I haven't played Magic in a long time...
Ethics? I don't know. I suppose ethical tournament play would include good sportsmanship, no cheating, and fair and impartial penalties for rules infractions. I thought grouping it under the heading of "Ethics" would cover that, and I thought phrasing the question the way I did would sound more professional than asking something like: "Do you think WotC encourages or discourages cheating when they go easy on a guy like Mike Long?"
See what I mean?
BTW, this suggestion for a voting topic came from Seeker of Truth (who I'm not even sure still hangs out here anymore
), and if you'd like to know what HE meant when he asked it, please refer back to the Voting Topics thread in this forum. His post was on the 1st page, I believe, and I think he explained it pretty well there.
Personally, I feel that tougher penalties should be imposed on repeat offenders like Long, and I think the DCI sends the wrong message whenever they give him only a wrist-slap for blatant cheating. To me, that's the reason why individual judges feel they can arbitrarily decide which rules to enforce, and which rules infractions they can feel free to ignore, or soft-soap, if they choose to.
That's what the DCI does, after all.
If anyone would like to suggest a rephrasing of the question please LMK here, and I'll see what I can do, but please bear in mind the format of the Voting Booth when you do. Thanks.
See what I mean?
BTW, this suggestion for a voting topic came from Seeker of Truth (who I'm not even sure still hangs out here anymore
), and if you'd like to know what HE meant when he asked it, please refer back to the Voting Topics thread in this forum. His post was on the 1st page, I believe, and I think he explained it pretty well there.Personally, I feel that tougher penalties should be imposed on repeat offenders like Long, and I think the DCI sends the wrong message whenever they give him only a wrist-slap for blatant cheating. To me, that's the reason why individual judges feel they can arbitrarily decide which rules to enforce, and which rules infractions they can feel free to ignore, or soft-soap, if they choose to.
That's what the DCI does, after all.
If anyone would like to suggest a rephrasing of the question please LMK here, and I'll see what I can do, but please bear in mind the format of the Voting Booth when you do. Thanks.
the reason I asked was because to me, "ethics" is different from "cheating", which is what most participants are talking about.
Good sportsmanship? Yes (which probably needs to be defined also, like no mind games. But then where does bluffing come in?)
No cheating? Definitely.
Fair and impartial rulings? Definitely. Although from what I've read, Long got what the judges could prove. They couldn't prove he blatantly stacked his deck so they had to give him the penalty for whatever-it-was (bad shuffling?) They couldn't prove he kept the Bloom on his lap so they penalized for whatever it was. Personally, if you really want to cover this the rules have to be ABSOLUTELY clear on what is allowed and what is not.
Good sportsmanship? Yes (which probably needs to be defined also, like no mind games. But then where does bluffing come in?)
No cheating? Definitely.
Fair and impartial rulings? Definitely. Although from what I've read, Long got what the judges could prove. They couldn't prove he blatantly stacked his deck so they had to give him the penalty for whatever-it-was (bad shuffling?) They couldn't prove he kept the Bloom on his lap so they penalized for whatever it was. Personally, if you really want to cover this the rules have to be ABSOLUTELY clear on what is allowed and what is not.
The DCI, of course. Which, as far as I'm concerned, goes right back to WotC, and whether they're doing enough to ensure ethical, professional play.
Okay, I'm going to attempt posting this in the new Voting Booth. I hope it works better than the old one. Please LMK if any of you have any problems with voting, and, of course, if you have any suggestions for new Topics. Thanks.
Okay, I'm going to attempt posting this in the new Voting Booth. I hope it works better than the old one. Please LMK if any of you have any problems with voting, and, of course, if you have any suggestions for new Topics. Thanks.
The question is posted, but the link on the right-hand side of the Main Page appears to be inactive. To vote I had to click on the "Voting Booth" link in the middle of the stuff on the left-hand side of the page, and then I got a "Poll Results" table on the right-hand side, which shows the totals thus far...
Mike?
Mike?