Civil War

[Killer Joe]

Yesterday NBC & MSNBC decided to refer to the "War in Iraq" as a Civil War.

This can only be *bad news* for the White House administration. Critics of the war & White House can latch onto this new wording (semantics really) and drive it into the hearts of the American public. What was wrong with the White House calling it: "A New Phase in the insurrection in Iraq"?

I suppose if it walks like a duck, squaks like a duck, it MUST be a duck.

What do we do now?

 

[turgy22]

Who cares how certain news media outlets label the conflict? As long as Fox News continues calling it the "War Against Evil" or whatever, I can sleep easy at night.

Tag Guard

 

[Killer Joe]

Unfortunately the White House cares enough to have released a written response yesterday to that announcement which means they just "legitomized" the renaming of the war.

They shouldn't have recognized it at all, imo. I certainly don't want our troops to be reffereeing a cival war but if they're over there fighting a war against evil then that's a different story.

 

[Nightstalkers]

It's been a civil war for a whle now. That whole country will be in a civil war primarily due to the fact that they have been fighting against themselves in that part of the world since Christ was reported to have walked the earth.

I just find it funny that the american government can expect to roll in there with some troops and try to change the government to democracy while being "peacekeepers."

Totally different world over there. About like Viet-nam without the jungle and the gorillas. Hell, the people primarily hate us for being infidels anyways.

 

[Mooseman]

WOW....
"- President Bush on Tuesday rejected suggestions that Iraq is in civil war, calling the violence there part of an al Qaeda in Iraq plot to spark divisions between Sunni and Shiite Muslims."

"Britain expects to withdraw "thousands" of troops from Iraq by the end of next year, British Defense Minister Des Browne said Monday, according to Reuters."


Bush and his administration are truly clueless, but the Brits have wised up to the quagmire of nation building Bush started......

 

[Oversoul]

WOW....
"- President Bush on Tuesday rejected suggestions that Iraq is in civil war, calling the violence there part of an al Qaeda in Iraq plot to spark divisions between Sunni and Shiite Muslims."

Do they have evidence for this?

 

[mythosx]

WOW....
"- President Bush on Tuesday rejected suggestions that Iraq is in civil war, calling the violence there part of an al Qaeda in Iraq plot to spark divisions between Sunni and Shiite Muslims."

Isn't the division between the sunni and the shiite model of the definition of a civil war?

 

[Killer Joe]

I think, once again, that semantics play a part in defining what a "civil war" is, on one hand the Sunni's and Shiite's are at war with each other but other factions like Al-Quida play a part in it too and if you include the US then it's a mis-mass of fighting. So a "Rules-Lawyer" or "Word-Lawyer" could argue that it's NOT technically a civil war.

Guess what: It's a civil war!

 

[mythosx]

exactly. an the only reason why its not a civil war is that we are involved. its like using a word to define itself......sigh

 

[Astranbrulth]

Talking about the situation in Iraq is really depressing.

You know how many refugees have left for Jordan, Syria and other Gulf states? Nearly a million. People are getting their heads lopped off or holes drilled into their skulls just because they are the equivalent of Christian Protestants vs Catholics.

The US is slap bang in the middle of it and is powerless (or unwilling) to do anything about it. The "elected" government is a joke ... its basically dysfunctional. Supporting it is like going to the Wal-Mart for Death Squads and picking one.

Really, at this point I think it is best to go home and let the whole mess sort itself out.

Iraqis themselves seem to be more optimistic that they can solve their differences without third parties involved, and I say, why not listen to them?

 

[Killer Joe]

Unfortunately our current administration can't do that until we secure the Oil Fields for our profit. There's no reason to argue against this becuase it's a FACT. What other "Good" reason is there to stay?

 

[Astranbrulth]

[killer joe] "Unfortunately our current administration can't do that until we secure the Oil Fields for our profit. There's no reason to argue against this becuase it's a FACT."

No, no, ol' Bush is spending billions of dollars and American blood in Iraq because he loves the Arabs so much. No, really.

Oil has nothing to do with it. What an outlandish notion!

 

[Mooseman]

Maybe you are both wrong and it's not the oil, but the oil company profits?
Let's see......
1) The shrub is/was an oilman
2) Since the war in Iraq oil company profits have been increasing to unheard of numbers
3) Oil companies were invited to help set energy policy with VP Dick Cheney

Is there a connection or is this just conspiracy mumbo jumbo?

 

[Killer Joe]

I know what "jumbo" is, it's that tasty bologna I put on my sammiches with L,T & O and downning it with a cold "Iron".

But what is "mumbo"?

 

[EricBess]

Hey, thanks for kicking out the dictator we had so now we can set up the dictator that we wanted...

Sure, plenty of Iraqis want us out because it lets them go right back to where they were before we stepped in, but with them in control.

I don't pretend to understand all of the politics going on because there is plenty and I'm not going to say that oil isn't involved, but it's fairly naive to say we could just leave right now and expect everything to settle itself.

From what I've heard, most of the troops in Iraq still believe in what they are doing there and they are in a better position to judge the situation than I am, so I have to believe that there is still some good being done.

 

[Nightstalkers]

Only way Suddam kept them in line was his brutal slaughtering of "innocence." Sure it was "inhumane" but it kept everyone in his country in check and thinkin' he was the biggest literal badass in the area.

Even though they're civilized over there, they still rely on the old ways of barbarism to really live.

 

[Killer Joe]

"Monday Morning Quarterbacking" is way too easy to talk about things such as; we should've never entered Iraq without fully exhausting diplomatic measures, and I mean FULLY. But that's not reality, reality right now is that; yes, we entered, yes we stopped a horrible dictator, and yes we're there up to our neck in casualties and deaths. Now what?

~Diplomatic measures - good idea but it doesn't look like it's gonna happen anytime soon, or ever.
~Pull troops out - another good idea but it doesn't look like it's gonna happen anytime soon, or ever.
~Stay the Course - Bad idea and I'm afraid it looks like that could happen sometime soon, maybe sooner.

The Iraqi committee that just published ideas for Iraq, a joke. All good ideas but none are going to be followed. Hamilton and Baker might as well played poker all those days and scratching their collective butts.

We're in for the long haul even though we're some 1,300+ days since "Mission Accomplished"

 

[Mooseman]

Actually, I think this is more the reason why there will be little stability in the region for a long time to come:
http://tvnz.co.nz/view/news_world_story_skin/711990
To many of people in the region seem to cling to clans, tribes and religions. They fight among themselves for power regardless of the damage it does to their own society.
Yes Saddam was an evil man and brutal dictator, but his government keep a tight rein on tribal and religious fighting, and deterred most terrorist activity that he did not control. Actually, Saddam's government would be totally against terrorists in their country, since they then would have to share power with them.
The Saddam regime was more Lawful Evil, then Chaotic Evil.....

 

[Killer Joe]

Ooooooooo, a D&D reference!