Book Burning in Florida?

R

rokapoke

Guest
I suppose we can't outlaw idiocy in this country... after all, the members of Congress won't vote themselves pay cuts or anything else that would negatively affect them...
 

turgy22

Nothing Special
Violence begets violence and hate begets hate. Radical Muslims kill innocent people, which in turn creates more radical anti-Muslims who do everything they can to insult and disparage all Muslims, which then creates more radical Muslims who want to kill more innocent people.

Sometimes I wish we could take all the extremist Muslims and all the extremist anti-Muslims and put them in a room together and tell them, "These are the people you want to kill." The world would be a better place. Then again, they might start talking and just agree to hate gay people together.
 
D

DarthFerret

Guest
Seems like the rest of us non-extreemists pretty much all agree on one point here:

Yes, you have the RIGHT to burn the Koran or to place a Mosque (not sure if it should be capitalized so I did it) close to ground zero, but that does not make it a morally correct (or even a very smart) idea.

The funny thing about the book burning situation. The AP (Associated Press) has announced that they will not feature any story about anyone burning the Koran because it "might incite radical retaliation". Yet they have no problem featuring stories about flag burning, bible burning, etc....
Since the AP is (mostly) read by Americans, isn't this view a bit backwards (or at least, imo, should be spread out evenly, but then if you do that you would have almost no news stories at all...heh)?
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Yes, you have the RIGHT to burn the Koran or to place a Mosque (not sure if it should be capitalized so I did it) close to ground zero, but that does not make it a morally correct (or even a very smart) idea.
I guess that makes me an extremist then (oh well). I mean, I dislike all book-burning and yeah I agree that people do and should have the legal right to do it even though it's stupid, but I don't see what building a mosque has to do with anything. The controversy strikes me as absurd and probably manufactured by opportunists who revel in this sort of thing.
 
E

EricBess

Guest
The funny thing about the book burning situation. The AP (Associated Press) has announced that they will not feature any story about anyone burning the Koran because it "might incite radical retaliation". Yet they have no problem featuring stories about flag burning, bible burning, etc....
Since the AP is (mostly) read by Americans, isn't this view a bit backwards (or at least, imo, should be spread out evenly, but then if you do that you would have almost no news stories at all...heh)?
Is it backwards? I mean, how many incenced americans are libel to park a car bomb in front of your place of business if you run a story about burning a flag?

The whole point of terrorism is to convince people to behave in a way that you want them to because they are afraid of what you will do to them if they don't. So, in the case of the AP, sounds like they have decided to negotiate. Or at the very least, they don't trust the government's ability to protect them.

If it weren't for the fact that the story is already all over the place, I might start worrying that the american people are being censored by Muslim extremists, but I think the internet is a bit too big for a single car bomb.

Oversoul - I dislike book burnings as well, but I'm concerned that the president's comments are "they have a legal right, but it is insensitive to others" with the book burnings, but when it talking about the mosque at ground zero, the comments are only "they have a legal right," with not comment about it being potentially insensitive.

Personally, I don't care what happens in either case, but I do think that both could be considered insensitive and offensive and if the intentions were pure, the people involved in both would realize that and look for a better way to handle it. Didn't the governer of New York offer to help find a different location for the mosque/community center?

BTW - historically, mosques are built in key locations of conquered lands. Sort of a trophy. Just something to think about.
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Oversoul - I dislike book burnings as well, but I'm concerned that the president's comments are "they have a legal right, but it is insensitive to others" with the book burnings, but when it talking about the mosque at ground zero, the comments are only "they have a legal right," with not comment about it being potentially insensitive.
My problem with book-burning has nothing to do with it being offensive or insensitive toward those that hold the book being burned in high regard or believe it was originally dictated by the creator of the universe or whatever. My problem with book-burning is that it's book-burning. Maybe the parties doing it think of it as being a form of protest akin to burning a flag or similar symbol, but even if they do (which in most cases I doubt), that's no excuse.

That's not to say that I'm endorsing flag-burning, but it is, at its core, an act of malice for what the flag stands for. Burning a flag takes the flag as a symbol, and sends a message (not a nice one) regarding that which the flag represents. Obviously this isn't counting cases in which flags are "retired" and such.

Burning a book, on the other hand, is an act of destroying information. A book is more than just a symbol representing a state or institution. A book has content. Historically, book-burning has been a form of censorship and oppression for a long, long time. And even more annoyingly, it's almost always participated in by people who haven't even read the book they're burning.

Personally, I don't care what happens in either case, but I do think that both could be considered insensitive and offensive and if the intentions were pure, the people involved in both would realize that and look for a better way to handle it. Didn't the governer of New York offer to help find a different location for the mosque/community center?
Well, I'm no Muslim, but if I were in a position to put up a building (uh, probably a museum or something) that I wanted to and had a site on which to do so, and a bunch of people flipped out and protested my location for some reason that had nothing to do with me or anything I'd ever done or planned to do and that didn't have any actually practical considerations, I wouldn't say, "Well, these people are oh-so-very-offended, so I should work with them to reach some sort of compromise and get this built where it won't be offensive to them." More like the opposite. I'd probably become pretty stubborn. Maybe I'm just weird like that, but I can totally sympathize with someone else who reacts that way.

Oh, and in this case, man. I've seen videos where people are asking protesters how far away the place would have to be in order not to be offensive, and it was like a different answer every time. Really, it doesn't surprise me. Different people are offended by different things in different ways. And that's fine. But you don't have a right to not be offended.
 
D

DarthFerret

Guest
Oversoul, the problem is that the mosque DOES have something to do with the terrorist attack. It can be argued that some of the people that are a part of that religion had nothing to do with it, but the same can be said about the residents of a country that initiate battles, skirmishes or even wars. Therefore, I think the people building the mosque do have some ulterior agenda other than just building it. I cannot speculate as to what the agenda is. If you were to place a museum of the relics from the history of the KKK right next to an NAACP Headquarters, I am sure there would be similar squacking (there are SOME members of the KKK that do not target african americans, but instead target other races, creeds, or cultures).
 
E

EricBess

Guest
Oversoul - The terrorist were radical muslims. The non-radical muslims know this as well as everyone else does, so while the reason may not have to do with the specific individuals (though many suspect that the funding is coming from the same people that funded the terrorists so even this is not clear), at the very least, they should have enough common sense to understand the reasons behind the protesters being offended.

I completely agree with you that no one has a right to not be offended. I personally don't care one way or the other on the mosque, but I understand why people feel that it is an insult. While they don't have a right to avoid offence, those causing the offense could stand to take this into consideration when making this decision, particularly when the people making the decision are a religious organization claiming that they are trying to build bridges.

Again, however, I feel it is a double-standard for those in authority to make a specific point of telling one group that what they are doing might be offensive when they didn't make such a statement to the other group. I suspect that what is really behind that is that if the radical muslims become offended, they are likely to attack our country. If the protestors are offended by the "community center", they are less likely to do so.
 

turgy22

Nothing Special
though many suspect that the funding is coming from the same people that funded the terrorists so even this is not clear
The funding is coming from Alwaleed bin Talal, the same man that tried to donate money to New York after the attack (and was declined) and the man who owns the second largest percentage of News Corp (Fox's parent company.) I became aware of this information courtesy of the Daily Show, but anyone can look it up themselves if they don't believe it.

Therefore, I think the people building the mosque do have some ulterior agenda other than just building it. I cannot speculate as to what the agenda is.
Isn't it obvious? The imam who's organizing it says it's to promote unity and healing, but I think it's fairly clear that it's a ploy by News Corp to generate publicity. Fox News was the first organization to report on the project and if they hadn't brought it into the spotlight, no one would even care. With the gulf oil spill wrapping up, but still well before the prime election season, they needed something to fill the airwaves and generate a buzz. What better than a mosque at ground zero? So they got one of their shareholders to finance it just so they could bring the story up and boost their ratings. It's a devious plan, but it worked well. (And, in case anyone was wondering, no, I do not actually believe this.)

Honestly, I don't get all the animosity and paranoia toward the new building. It's not like it's just a mosque. It's supposed to be a multicultural center that happens to include a mosque. Why build there? Um, maybe because the previous closest mosque used to be located IN the World Trade Center and kind of got destroyed when the towers fell down. I'm not completely versed on Islamic history, but I don't think it's standard procedure to destroy mosques before building new ones on conquered lands. What do people think is going on there? A terrorist cell? I'm completely baffled by the outrage. It's not like it's even on the WTC site. It used to be a Burlington Coat Factory. And there are tons of strip clubs and adult book stores closer to ground zero than the mosque. Where's the outrage over that? Or over the enormous shopping center that's planned to be built on the actual site of the WTC?

Also, while I agree with EricBess's assessment that radical Muslims are more likely to attack the country than radical right-wing anti-Muslim fanatics, that doesn't mean that they're the only ones capable of despicable acts. It wasn't that long ago that the largest terrorist attack on US soil was executed by a paranoid, right-wing, ex-military Catholic Republican. He killed over 600 people in Oklahoma City because he was afraid of the power of the federal government. And now, we have the Tea Party people that are using that exact same logic to stir up anger, but that's perfectly acceptable. I'm hoping nothing comes of it and they continue to use the democratic process to enable the changes they're looking for, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if we see a terrorist attack come soon from an anti-government fanatic, especially if things don't go as they want in the November elections.

Actually, I just remembered that there were planned terrorist acts by a "Christian" militia in Michigan not too long ago. Their plan was to kill a police officer and then attack more officers at the funeral. I guess I don't differentiate much between nuts like that and nuts like the Muslim guy who tried to blow up Times Square.
 
T

train

Guest
Burn it, and?... I mean - if an individual decides to do something, let them, and let them face the consequences... soon they will be gone from this earth. Others will as well. See 'em in heaven, hell, no hell, nothing beyond this existence, who knows - but why not let him be gone.

The best thing he could do for family or causes he believes in is make sure the life insurance is current.
 
T

train

Guest
Let him burn it and whatever happens, happens...
Let them build the mosque and whatever happens, happens...

Each is within their rights.
I would want the same.
If I ever get the mind to do something to garner national/international attention, whatever happens, happens...
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Oh, "him" is that Terry Jones guy? I seriously didn't get that from your previous post and thought you had accidentally posted in the wrong thread or something. I think I get what you're saying now though.
 
T

train

Guest
yeah - him=Jones... so maybe it makes more sense now...

"Stupid is, as stupid does..." = and so the stupid shall receive...:cool:
 
Top