Another off-beat Type 1 - G Tokens

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Mikeymike

Guest
To review from my 'Sneak' deck, my group has been playing/building a lot of uber Type 1 decks and playing 1v1's recently, and I have a tough time competing with my casual decks.

I have and old standby, green tokens. It has always been a competitive casual deck of mine that was pretty good in 1v1. Recently I made a significant change to the deck - adding Skullclamp. Well, it improved the deck significantly - to the point where it wasn't so 'casual' anymore. I figured that if I was to leave the Skullclamps in that I would have to make it a full on comp deck, which actually isn't such a terrible idea. Hey, its been an MP deck for 4 years, might as well try something different with it right?

My competition includes:
Psychatog/Beserk
Worldgorger Dragon
Keeper w/ Tinker Colossus
Other not quite as evil decks

Deck basis

Token Generators:
4 Symbiotic Deployment (always great, but now officially evil w/ clamp)
4 Deranged Hermit
3 Beacon of Creation
2 Saproling Cluster (clamp again, worth it?)

Token lovahs:
4 Skullclamp
3/4 Echoing Truth
3/4 Concordant Crossroads (the T1 decks I'm going up against have few creatures)

Acceleration/Other:
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Rofellos
4 Nature's Lore (worth it? )
1 Crop Rotation
1 Regrowth

Mana
1 Black Lotus
1 Mana Vault/Sol Ring
1 Mox Emerald
3 Gaea's Cradle
1 Strip Mine
2 Wasteland
14 Forest

I like Rofellos and Beacon of Creation a lot, but I wonder if I'd be better off going with Moxen and Fetchlands so I can splash a 2nd color....thoughts?

Other cards I'm considering:
Smokestack
Overrun (should have lots of mana)
Bind
Xantid Swarm
Collective Unconsciouness
Zuran Orb
Naturalize

Splash cards
Typical Blue/Black restricted ugliness

All suggestions welcome.
 
M

Mikeymike

Guest
OK, this is what I put together for gold-fishing

Token makers - 10
4 Spontaneous Generation
4 Deranged Hermit
2 Beacon of Creation

Mana Accel - 6
3 Rofellos
3 Nature's Lore (gets duals)

Token happiness - 12
4 Skullclamp
4 Concordant Crossroads
4 Echoing Courage (wow is this strong)

Restricted Goodness - 7
1 Mind Twist
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Time Walk
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Regrowth
1 Crop Rotation
1 Demonic Tutor

Mana - 25
1 Black Lotus
1 Sol Ring
3 In color Moxen
3 Gaea's Cradle
1 Strip Mine
2 Wasteland
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Trop Island
4 Bayou
3 Forest

It is kind of tough to get a good read off of what I need, but I did notice a few things.

I'm not sure Beacon of Creation is correct for this deck. Late game it is solid, but so are my other 2 generators. This needs to be cheaper accel, and the only realiable early token cast I can find is Chatter of the Squirrel. I figure 2 tokens at 3 mana at worst still isn't bad in here, and it helps fix my curve. Plus its cheap cost(s) also work well with an early Clamp. And it makes squirrels, allowing for stronger E.C's.
-2 Beacons
+2 Chatters

I'd still like to find room for 2 more Chatters, hmm...
- Do I need both Yawgmoth's Will and Regrowth? It's tough to say, because GF-ing allows me to deal 20 damage very easily so I don't need to dig in my yard.
- Echoing Courage is money, but if I don't have tokens out is it worth running 4? Tough call, they are rarely a dead draw.
- Nature's Lore...I love the mana cleaning, deck-thinning, usable single mana, but I still can't guage how necessary they are. I haven't been drawing them early.
- Rofellos...when he's active watch out, but it is very difficult for him to get me that 4 mana on turn 2, which is pretty key
- Wouldn't mind adding Mystical Tutor, and maybe Fastbond or even Channel.


For the sideboard I'm leaning towards...
3/4 Xantid Swarm
3/4 Naturalize
3 Smokestack
3/4 Extract (for Balance, Colossus)
??
 
B

boozehound

Guest
I found the hermits too slow and i didn't like the echo cost, my deck went r/g after, using liege of the hollows, snake baskets and goblin offensives. I then threw in ashnods altars which i find work great in token decks, enabling you to throw all your tokens through it to power up your next x casting cost and then repeat. Chuck in some epic struggles and roberts your mothers brother.
 
T

train

Guest
i think there's a card that shuts down most of those, since your hand won't have much... ensnaring bridge...

and you could also easily look at null brooch for a good threat...;)
 
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Reverend Love

Guest
I'd look into using Thunderstaff. I love this card. I've got a token deck running four of'em and I'm happy to see them each and everytime I draw'm.

Gaea's Cradle is restricted Mikey.

Do you think it's worth running 1 disrupction card in Mind Twist? I haven't used the'ol twist in well over two years, so I can't say. However maindecking only one disruption card kinda seems outta place.
 
M

Mikeymike

Guest
Thanks for all the replies.

I didn't explain the dynamic of the deck well enough. The way it wins, simply, is to deal 20 damage as fast as possible. It usually operates with a decent hand size until I get a Spontaneous Generation off and/or a Skullclamp into play. It usually deals 20 the turn (or turn after) I get some tokens in play, which is usually 5 or 6 but often 4 (sometimes 3).

I'm trying to get away with this type of deck b/c my current opponents are playing mostly net-decked Type 1 decks and are running little creature disruption, but are heavily counter-based. Its not superfast for Type1, but enough to put up a fight.

The Hermits usually are not a problem in here with Cradle/Rofellos mana, and with the Crossroads they are a quick 9 damage. I wouldn't mind them being 4 mana, but if I've got the 5 I want little else.

Ensnaring Bridge wouldn't work for me in my metagame b/c the only creatures I regularly see are Psychatog and sometimes a Darksteel Colossus (which Extract is in the side for). Plus, this deck doesn't necessarily blow through its hand in a predictable manner. It could work strictly for the D.C., something to think about.

Same problem with Thunderstaff. It'd be a great sideboard option in the right enviro, but it doesn't hurt Tog or D.C. enough.

Gaea's Cradle isn't restricted in Type 1 (you're stoked, just so you know I'm not crazy ), thankfully b/c without it I'd be in trouble.

Mind Twist is 1 of the cards I'm questioning. It doesn't necessarily 'belong' in here, but I chose to put it in here for two reasons. 1) is that I can often pump very early mana into equaling my opponent's card-count and 2) when I'm ready to go off I can draw out the counter meant for my finisher(s). It could be something else, but beyond Balance it is probably the very few cards you can simply add and it will often do it's intended job. It could be Vampiric Tutor though. Seriously though I put it in here for its sheer power, if it resolves I pretty much win.

What do you guys think of main-decking Smokestack?
 
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Tabasco

Guest
1x Verdeloth, the Ancient? I know you are playing squirrels, and you said you had lots of mana.....

...but look at him he is a one man army! Just add mana and

...

POOF!

... Instant ars-whooping power...works nice with the courage too!!

Just a thought

-Tabasco
 
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Reverend Love

Guest
Smokestacks would chew through your kill condition though.
 
M

Mikeymike

Guest
Tabasco, I actually played around with Verdeloth in here. I found that he beats very hard but was extremely mana hungry. The way the deck worked I usually just held him in my hand as it went off. The key being, if I had the mana to power him, I usually preferred to use that mana for the more abusive Skullclamp/multi-spell cast loops to try to out-run counters.

I'm still considering putting him back in once I go up against live competition, if it appears I need 1 uber-bomb just in case. And he is an uber-bomb.

RL, the Will is already included in the deck, and it is too strong as usual.

Regarding Smokestack, if I time it right I can afford to lose the creatures to my opponent's permanents. Upkeep 1 it is 1 token, Upkeep 2 it is 1 token and 1 Smokestack (or 2 tokens) - from that point on I can build its strength or keep on plucking for 2.

I'm really not sure about it yet, but I can what you mean about interfering with my offense. I think it could be strong in this enviro, as control would have a serious problem with it. But it would slow me down...
 
T

train

Guest
It's anothr color - but if the bridge doesn't seem to fit... Humility should hold you pretty well...;)
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Originally posted by Mikeymike
Regarding Smokestack, if I time it right I can afford to lose the creatures to my opponent's permanents. Upkeep 1 it is 1 token, Upkeep 2 it is 1 token and 1 Smokestack (or 2 tokens) - from that point on I can build its strength or keep on plucking for 2.
Click to expand...
I can't tell from that if you know how to use the Smokestack optimally or not. But remember to arrange the order of upkeep effects so that the first upkeep you make the sacrifice (of nothing, since there are no soot counters) then add a counter after, so as to always have one up on your opponent. Killing all of the opponent's permanents is fun! :)
 
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Mikeymike

Guest
Originally posted by Oversoul
I can't tell from that if you know how to use the Smokestack optimally or not. But remember to arrange the order of upkeep effects so that the first upkeep you make the sacrifice (of nothing, since there are no soot counters) then add a counter after, so as to always have one up on your opponent. Killing all of the opponent's permanents is fun! :)
Click to expand...
Aw crap, you're right, thanks for the head's up Oversoul. I don't know how I missed that.

Well that sure limits it's effectiveness. So much for Smokestack, it takes a turn and a half to do anything with it.
 
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