R
rakso
Guest
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/expandnews.php?Article=1618
Hope you guys find some sense in this.
Hope you guys find some sense in this.
Last installment of gauging Apocalypse for Type I... critique requested
I
Istanbul
Guest
I disagree with you on one point.
Pernicious Deed is different from Nevinyrral's Disk and Powder Keg in one very important way.
Keg is very selective. Destroys one specific number of converted mana cost, and it has to grow to that number.
Even Disk has to untap...and against decks like Sligh and Stasis, a 4-CC board clearer that needs an extra turn to untap can kill you.
Pernicious Deed is what I call Drop-'N-Pop.
Turn 1: Forest, Birds.
Turn 2: Swamp, Deed.
Sligh, do your worst. Yes, I WILL blow up my Birds to eat all of your creatures.
Stasis sees me boarding in Skyshroud Ranger (I hope I'm thinking of the right elf), so that I can break Stasis' lock then pop it with the Deed.
Is Deed a major force in Type 1? Maybe. Probably not. But remember...drop-and-sac second turn to rid yourself of pesky Moxes/Loti, or wait till third turn and wipe the board clean. Especially with Dark Ritual on the scene, Mox-Lotus-Island-Juzam isn't as fearsome as it used to be.
Pernicious Deed is different from Nevinyrral's Disk and Powder Keg in one very important way.
Keg is very selective. Destroys one specific number of converted mana cost, and it has to grow to that number.
Even Disk has to untap...and against decks like Sligh and Stasis, a 4-CC board clearer that needs an extra turn to untap can kill you.
Pernicious Deed is what I call Drop-'N-Pop.
Turn 1: Forest, Birds.
Turn 2: Swamp, Deed.
Sligh, do your worst. Yes, I WILL blow up my Birds to eat all of your creatures.
Stasis sees me boarding in Skyshroud Ranger (I hope I'm thinking of the right elf), so that I can break Stasis' lock then pop it with the Deed.
Is Deed a major force in Type 1? Maybe. Probably not. But remember...drop-and-sac second turn to rid yourself of pesky Moxes/Loti, or wait till third turn and wipe the board clean. Especially with Dark Ritual on the scene, Mox-Lotus-Island-Juzam isn't as fearsome as it used to be.
Z
Zadok001
Guest
(You were thinking of Quiron Ranger. Skyshroud Ranger does nothing against Stasis.)
H
Hetemti
Guest
God no! Not my Mogg Fanatic...oh...wait...he's drop-n-pop too. Glad I didn't waste him on your birds. And my Jackal Pup was soooo cute, you meanie! You kicked my puppy! Here, eat some firey death. Next turn I'll cast a Savanah Lion and a replacement Scroll while I'm at it. (Note...my Sligh decks have some white in them too ((I just can't help myself with my Red-white-ness)) so my Disenchant will tell you when you are allowed to pop your Deed.)Turn 1: Forest, Birds.
Turn 2: Swamp, Deed.
Sligh, do your worst.
And how does that stop Island-Mox-Lotus-Juzam? They are mana sources (which still resolve immediatly, unless erattated to be instants...) ...which still can be done in responce to your deedieweedie...which won't wipe Juzam 'till you can pump 5 in it...which won't be 'till Turn 4, if you don't chump a fightin'forest to keep in double-digits after The Large Horned One slugs you twice in the gut.
Pernicious Deed is a different disk. It can do the same thing as Disk, but it does it under different conditions. (Often Deed shines when Disk is impotent, and Disk 0wnz when Deed is too expensive to use.) Disk is better late game, or in a Not-Green-and-Black deck, and Deed is better early/mid in a Green-and-Black deck when you want to wreck early plays.
T
theorgg
Guest
That works WITHOUT the stack!Originally posted by Ransac
I like disk better, because you can activate it, phase it out with a Vision Charm or a Reality Ripple, resolve the phasing, resolve the destruction, and you get your disk back your next turn.
God, I love the stack.
Ransac, cpa trash man
Rippledisc!
Too bad my copy got stolen somwhere...
:{ (
R
ransacattack
Guest
Too bad Ransac wasn't hit by the ball.
I
Istanbul
Guest
First of all, most Sligh decks don't play white, Hetemti...you're an aberration.
Secondly, you're assuming that discard doesn't steal any of your thunder. Nice Disenchant...too bad a first-turn Duress put it in the graveyard where it belongs.
Thirdly, I've found that Sligh operates best when you have two or more creatures and/or Cursed Scroll out. You decide when I pop my Deed? No, I decide when you pop your Mogg Fanatic.
And my example only works if I play Deed ASAP. A smarter thing to do would be to drop it once you have Scroll and a creature out. And oh, look...your side of the board goes away for four mana! (1GB+1) Oh, but you keep your land...and we all know how desperately Sligh needs lots of land.
As for Island/Lotus/Mox/Juzam...I should have used a more untargetable example.
Secondly, you're assuming that discard doesn't steal any of your thunder. Nice Disenchant...too bad a first-turn Duress put it in the graveyard where it belongs.
Thirdly, I've found that Sligh operates best when you have two or more creatures and/or Cursed Scroll out. You decide when I pop my Deed? No, I decide when you pop your Mogg Fanatic.
And my example only works if I play Deed ASAP. A smarter thing to do would be to drop it once you have Scroll and a creature out. And oh, look...your side of the board goes away for four mana! (1GB+1) Oh, but you keep your land...and we all know how desperately Sligh needs lots of land.
As for Island/Lotus/Mox/Juzam...I should have used a more untargetable example.
R
rakso
Guest
Ransac: Playing Disk, Capsize and other spells, I found that you usually don't need to use Disk a second time (or will draw another soon enough) in blue decks. Combo looked really good, but I never quite needed it.
Anyway, what about the other comments, aside from Pernicious Deed? (I think hitting enchantments stands out a bit more than untargettability)
Anyway, what about the other comments, aside from Pernicious Deed? (I think hitting enchantments stands out a bit more than untargettability)
M
Mikeymike
Guest
Here is input from a Type 1 casual/multiplayer. I do not compete in Type 1 tourneys but I've been getting a pretty good feel for the speed of the environment (cough, fast, cough) based on your primers and various analyses.
Vindicate: I love this card in my casual games, but I would be afraid to bother with a sorcery (no matter how cheap) in a T1 tourney. Basically I wait to see if he/she can kill me on their turn (disregard any FoW's) and hopefully they don't I get to go again so I can waste 50-75% of my mana to take out a permanent. I'd rather play Temporal Spring to steal some of their tempo, plus the colors are easier (well green maybe isn't as easy as one would think).
Personally, I also think there is potential for Guided Passage and Ice Cave (Yes I know enchantments were covered already, but what the hell).
Guided Passage reminds me of Demonic Consultation in that its difficult to use properly, but too powerful a tutor to ignore. Still, its essentially 3 for 1, and having 2 extra cards in your hand is almost always good. Maybe its not Type 1 stuff, but someone will build a dangerous combo deck with this card in some format.
Ice Cave I see as the sleeper of Apocalypse. This thing can go right into Turboland in Extended (hello Obliterate/ Exploration beats). No matter when its played, it forces your opponent to change his/her normal game strategy. Bottomline: its a perpetual counterspell every turn given certain controllable conditions.
Fire/Ice: the tap permanent ability is better than people give it credit for. Tapping that permanent will basically get you that one more turn to survive (in most games) while allowing for 2 chances to topdeck an answer.
Evasive Action: I'm not positive of the ruling of this card but Dual Lands kick ass with this thing. Tundra and Badlands would allow for a 4 point Mana Leak. I mean, how often does someone have 3-5 mana open before turn 7?
I'm very curious to hear your response just because maybe you saw something about these cards I didn't, or why they just couldn't work in Type 1. Either way, I can't disagree with any of your other comments regarding Apocalypse in T1, nice job.
Vindicate: I love this card in my casual games, but I would be afraid to bother with a sorcery (no matter how cheap) in a T1 tourney. Basically I wait to see if he/she can kill me on their turn (disregard any FoW's) and hopefully they don't I get to go again so I can waste 50-75% of my mana to take out a permanent. I'd rather play Temporal Spring to steal some of their tempo, plus the colors are easier (well green maybe isn't as easy as one would think).
Personally, I also think there is potential for Guided Passage and Ice Cave (Yes I know enchantments were covered already, but what the hell).
Guided Passage reminds me of Demonic Consultation in that its difficult to use properly, but too powerful a tutor to ignore. Still, its essentially 3 for 1, and having 2 extra cards in your hand is almost always good. Maybe its not Type 1 stuff, but someone will build a dangerous combo deck with this card in some format.
Ice Cave I see as the sleeper of Apocalypse. This thing can go right into Turboland in Extended (hello Obliterate/ Exploration beats). No matter when its played, it forces your opponent to change his/her normal game strategy. Bottomline: its a perpetual counterspell every turn given certain controllable conditions.
Fire/Ice: the tap permanent ability is better than people give it credit for. Tapping that permanent will basically get you that one more turn to survive (in most games) while allowing for 2 chances to topdeck an answer.
Evasive Action: I'm not positive of the ruling of this card but Dual Lands kick ass with this thing. Tundra and Badlands would allow for a 4 point Mana Leak. I mean, how often does someone have 3-5 mana open before turn 7?
I'm very curious to hear your response just because maybe you saw something about these cards I didn't, or why they just couldn't work in Type 1. Either way, I can't disagree with any of your other comments regarding Apocalypse in T1, nice job.