Need some advice/help

[Nyx]

Ok, so I'm trying to convince my bosses (www.twingalaxies.com) to pressure WotC to accept the E-League as official. They just gave me and another employee permission to create an "RPG support page" and we are going to include online play of Magic (via both Apprentice and Interactice Encyclopedia) on the page. We're putting together a mock page as a proposal today and tomorrow.

If anyone has ideas on what we can include to support/encourage the online Magic community, let me know. We don't want to set the page up as competition to the E-League or anything like that. Rather than create a second league, we want to drive signups to the one that's already out there and get it DCI sanctioned. That's a pretty broad challenge, though. Also, at the same time we want to encourage some less competitive play, more themed and casual. So we're looking for ideas/ tips/ requests.

The last thing the Web needs right now is *another* site that lists decks, deck help, and tournament news. We're looking to add to the community, especially the fun aspects. Not just redo what's already being done.

One idea I'm looking at is a roleplaying forum. On-topic posts are defined as being in character to a person from Dominaria. Named characters not allowed (EG we'll take out Sisay, Urza, etc. before the forum goes online).

Chris and I (the two people working on it) are also likely to make some AD&D 3rd edition table-top RPG stuff set in Dominaria and drop it online in PDF format. Probably GURPS conversions as well.

Any other ideas?

 

[Ransac]

Send them the head of a toy weasel and threaten that more will come if they don't comply.


Seriously though, you should include a chat room, and see if you can PLAY magic through your site. And, um, could you reserve the name "Ransac" for me?


Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[Spiderman]

Are you not affiliated with E-League? Since you said "don't want to set the page up as competition to E-League".

If you're not, why not ask E-League why they can't be sanctioned by WOTC? I'm sure they've tried or at least have a better "know" on why they aren't.

If you ARE affiliated with E-League, are petitions the proper procedure for getting sanctioned? I don't know since I'm not at WOTC's website... just wondering.

 

[Rando]

You will never, NEVER, I'm sorry to say, get on-line play DCI sanctioned.

Why?

Because the DCI is the Tournament wing of WotC.
WotC makes thier money by selling little rectangles of card-stock.

There is no card-stock involved in on-line play. It is not in the DCI's, and therefore WotC's interest to sanction it because they sell no cards this way. If they sell no cards then they make no money. If they make no money, then why bother?

If the DCI was not affiliated with WotC, then maybe it would work out. But until there is another tournament orginization that can rival the DCI, then it is simply not going to happen.

 

[Nyx]

Actually, we are pretty confident that we can get tournament play sanctioned. If not DCI, then we can get them to let us keep records and publish results in our book of world records.

If we need to, we have a chance to go over WotC's head as we've got friends at Hasbro who have offered to fly out reps from our company to talk about our Scoretracker software and our online scoreboard.

We aren't affiliated with E-League yet, that's one of the things I'm pushing my company to do. The people at E-League I've spoken to were very open to our support. But until we actually get permission to open this branch of our site, we cannot officially approach E-League. MEaning we're still in the proposal stage.

If they were really afraid of online play, why would they be releasing the Interactive Encyclopedia and why are they creating their own online gaming network for play? Online tournaments will simply not replace the Pro Tour anytime soon, that doesn't mean they won't become a feature supported by the company.

[Edited by Nyx on 12-05-00 at 03:34 PM]

 

[Nyx]

Ransac, if you visit http://www.twingalaxies.com right now and register as a member with the name Ransac, it'll be yours. I think that if we do go ahead and make this happen, we'll follow the model we set with our FPS tournaments and use the registration off of our main site as the official user list. If we don't, then I'll let you know what's up as soon as I find out otherwise.

 

[Rando]

I'm still pretty sceptical. I'm not going to hold my breath.

They can still make money with on-line play, if through nothing else but advertising, but it will still:
1- never be sanctioned
2- never be as widely suported
3- never be as popular
4- never be as marketable
...as sitting down at a table with a deck of real cards. People like tangible things, things they can see, touch and smell.

For you and your company's sake I hope I'm wrong.

...but I don't think so.

p.s. what is to stop you from keeping records anyway?

 

[Chaos Turtle]

Well, I don't know that online play will never be sanctioned, but I am certain that Apprentice play never will be.

It's only a matter of time beofre WotC figures out how to get around the security/cheating issues that currently weaken the integrity of online play.

Most likely these tournaments will use a different sanctioning system then the DCI currently uses.

 

[Spiderman]

I guess I wasn't (and probably still aren't) clear on what you were trying to do/say in your first post. So you/your company has a scoring software you want to get used by E-League but you need to get E-League sanctioned before they can use it?

Echoing Rando's question, if this is so, then why can't you just go ahead and use it/keep your own records?

Of course, I remember some flap on the Dojo a couple years back about some guy in Europe having his own "tournament scoring" style and was forced to shut down by WOTC/DCI for some reason. This was before they were bought by Hasbro though, so maybe the rules changed

CT: You said Apprentice will never be sanctioned but the next sentence you said it would only be a matter of time before WOTC figures out security issues. These statements seem to contradict each other UNLESS you're talking about security issue for WOTC's OWN software (like Interactive Encyclopedia or whatever it is). Is that what you mean? And Apprentice won't be sanctioned because it's from a different company?

 

[Nyx]

Technically, we can just keep records. However, if the maker of the game doesn't approve of the gameplay, then we can't lable any such records "official." Since we publish the equivalent of the guiness book of video game world records, that "official seal of approval" is not an optional thing, even if we're just tracking an online league.

Also, this whole E-league getting sanctioned thing (even though I do find it interesting) is largely off topic to my request, wat I really need is as follows...

Suspend disbelief and pretend we get the E-League sanctioned. What would you like to see supporting online play that doesn't already exist. And what do you all think of the two ideas I proposed:

A forum for roleplaying in character online.

RPG supplements set in Dominaria and/or giving mods for RPGs to use the MTG magci system/cards.

---

How about a Dominaria-themed Neverwinter Nights server?

MTG skins for first-person shooters?

Anything else anyone can think of? Any interest in any of these things?

 

[Spiderman]

Suspending disbelief for now...

I'm not that familiar with online play, but can you have an 8 man booster draft online? Does NetDraft do that? If not, then that would be good.

Other than that:

1. I personally wouldn't have the time for an online RPG, but it's a neat idea.

2. Again, in an abstract view this sounds good. It also sounds like you're doing what WOTC was originally doing for RPG's when it first started . However, when you say "mods" or "supplements", don't a lot of the fantasy based RPG's already have a magic type system? So you would be proposing to "replace" those systems in these mods?

 

[Nyx]

Again, in an abstract view this sounds good. It also sounds like you're doing what WOTC was originally doing for RPG's when it first started .

Well, as an avid RPGr, one of the things I've noticed is that no one can list a site that supports the genre correctly or even very well. There are sites that support one game quite well, but nothing for the genre. PlanetRPG is a steaming pile of, well, I won't say. But you get the idea. Especially for the online games, there's just not much. Most of you guys don't know who good we have it as Magic players in the online world. Try to find useful support pages for Dark Ages, or even Gemstone III (the largest online game of any kind at all). There just aren't many worthwhile ones. WebRPG is the closest and they need a ton of help. The idea is that we get a few of us actual players and we get the company to provide through us our personal dream site. In my mind, one of the biggest things missing from MTG is that very RPG element that it touches on but never fully captures. Here we are online in a forum halfway living it. Imagine the fun of going that next step. Where Cateran Overlord would only talk in character as an actual Cateran Overlord. Where we never used the terms "card" "deck" "hand" or "in-play." Where a library actually referred to a collection of spells kept locked away in a safe place only we could reach. Where we reported our duels as if we'd actually fought them, not played them.

We all know players who make their decks more around themes than power. Who always drool over the new elves, or Horrors. Who refuse to attack one turn because their favorite pet Kavu would die if they did, even though it's the strategically correct thing to do. I mean, here, that's us, we are those players. I ahve a friend who's named all four of his Lords of the Pit (Maleskari, Yrrigav, and Sith after the three great demon lords in Rolemaster, and Mordokoth after Morgoth who was Sauron's lord) and who keeps a little sticker on the face of each card condom for them where he records each one's player kills. Maleskari had the most with 56 when he finally gave up playing.

Why not encourage that style of play? Nowhere else does. It wouldn't all fit on a site devoted to MTG playing because so much is external to MTG, like a MTG skin for Quake. Still, it would be fun to run around a Quake server looking like Volrath, Greven, Shauku Endbringer, or Livonya Silonne.

However, when you say "mods" or "supplements", don't a lot of the fantasy based RPG's already have a magic type system? So you would be proposing to "replace" those systems in these mods?

Yes, all RPGs have some kind of magic or psionics system. However, not all would be replaced. We are thinking of several documents. One that converts a good chunk of the MTG cards into functional spells within the existing AD&D system. But also another one that replaces their magic system for one that simulates the whole mana system and drawing power from land. For example.

 

[Landkiller]

Why doesn't WOTC/Hasbro do that themselves?

I mean, why didn't WOTC have the TSR division write a D&D 'world' for Dominiria? It helps sell Magic to D&D players, and D&D to Magic players, and it would be the simplest thing in the world for them to do.


Now, Nyx, that's interesting...I don't know what to say. I agree that Magic sites are far superior to most RPG sites by a long shot. But I don't exactly know how far a Magic/ RPG site could go. I don't even know if I would do it.

Because, is it gonna be the kind of RPG with no rules? Frankly, I don't go for "play pretend" games where the arguments escalate (like they did on the Battle Arena). It sounds a lot like the Battle Arena to me.

I want to like it, but I can't. Though that Lord of the Pit thing has Style.

 

[Spiderman]

I'd have to agree with Landkiller; you gotta wonder why WOTC doesn't do this themselves, especially coming from an RPG background AND having bought TSR.

But, talking about what you're trying to do, I'm wondering how feasible a Magic RPG would be. I mean, it's all about casting spells, no swordplay or melee contact (not really, if you want to stay "true" to the game). And most of the summon spells are basically the AD&D Summon spells. The other deck strategies will have to be looked at: how do you translate getting "decked"? Land destruction? I mean, basically you're just seeking out other planeswalkers.

I think the Magic:TG by Microprose had the right idea, if only they had the online/multiplayer play. And if the world would have had to be developed more with that kind of play in mind.... but walking around, dueling for ante, checking out the dungeons (although forming parties might be problematic), trading spells...

 

[Landkiller]

They could have missions set up, where several players unite against each other, something like Clans for Multiplayer games. As long as the number of players are equal.

Is what I'm trying to say clear?

 

[Spiderman]

Missions aren't exactly like role-playing (at least, I don't think).

I was thinking of more how to translate a Magic setting in something like EverQuest or Asheron's Call or Ultima Online, if I'm understanding how THEY work and what Nyx is trying to do

 

[Soldier]

Whew, almost gave my identity away!

 

[Nyx]

Because, is it gonna be the kind of RPG with no rules? Frankly, I don't go for "play pretend" games where the arguments escalate (like they did on the Battle Arena). It sounds a lot like the Battle Arena to me.

Well, the forum would be, although it'd be moderated. Any actual RPG products would not.

Why doesn't WotC do it themselves? #1 I haven't got a clue but they've had 7 years and still haven't tried. How much longer do you think I should wait for them to do it on their own? #2 Quite frankly, I don't trust them to do it right. Especially having looked at how badly they F$%^&'d up with AD&D 3rd compared to what they had with Skills & Powers.

I don't think that Everquest or Asheron's would work for MTG, but Neverwinter Nights is different. THe whole thing is based around the concept of the users creating their own worlds (via a the solstice tool set) linked via "portals." You can use several programming languages to allow anything you can code. One example was a guy asking if it would be possible to lock a door unless a player spoke the words, "Open sesame." and the developers assured him it would be. So would be mobile portals based on dialog. Am I the only one seeing how this can simulate planeswalking?

As for how feasable it would be, take a look at the sales of Mage the Ascension by White Wolf. All magic games can be done quite well. Also, who says that it has to be that way? Why not play as one of the beings who keeps getting summoned, mind controlled, and forced to fight for your life? Or else, what about playing as some of the people in the worlds where this happens, a minor Gerrard, Sisay, Tahngarth, etc.? In the RPG players don't have to be planeswalkers. There are many options.

If you don't know if you'd do it, answer this: Let's say that one day you saw mepost a link to this site. I think most people would follow the link and check it out. What would you have to see there to want to come back, and what would make you leave immediately and never return?