Lions Eye Diamond

J

JF

Guest
The errata of Lions Eye Diamond is the same stupid as the Waylay errata! Repeal it!
(In 6E you ar able to announce a spell and then pay the cost, which means tap the Diamond, discard the rest of your hand but pay for the already anounced spell)
The Diamond has all time been a very, very weak card. With the new 6E-Rules it has got a little power. Nevertheless, it had remained a somehow weak card with a limited use. Why was ist necessary to push it back into total unusefullness again?
What was the idea behind, what where they afraid of? It sounds stupid to me.
What is your opinion?
 
D

Dune Echo

Guest
Well, Lion's Eye Diamond and Waylay both got errata because 6th edition made them more powerful. And as I've said elsewhere, WotC boasted how 6th would add new strategic abilities to the game and make people look at the cards in a new way. Well we did and they're taking them away! We need to speak out against this because they're being hypocritical when they doing this.
 
T

theorgg

Guest
why did it get erratta'd? it was now just getting to be useful. yea, I know the combo with it: demonic tutor, n responce sack for three blue, get timetwister with demonic tutor, cast timetwister

it was only in type one...
unless Mercadian masks ......


oooohhhhhh.... there is going to..
ok.

I think I know what may be happening.

But I still say repeal the erratta.
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
I think they should have never printed the card in the first place...too many people were screaming "reprint Black Lotus! I can't afford one!" so they made something that was actually quite balanced. You could use it, but not for anything in your hand - then VIth Edition comes along and says you can pay the mana after you announce the casting of the card and if you're only holding one card (which most people playing decks w/ Cursed Scrolls in them are) you don't lose anything...this is why they needed the errata

Tell me: would you really like to face a deck in Extended that four Black Lotuses in it? I sure as hell wouldn't...

-ferret

"...besides, I paid too much for my lotus to have someone duplicate the effect w/ a cheap $5 rare from Mirage..."
 
D

Dune Echo

Guest
Ah, now Ferret, don't get bitter on us, old timer. Lion's Eye Diamond still isn't a match for the old favorite, the almighty Black Lotus. And you suck for having one anyway!

-Dune Echo

"Sonny, I remember when I had to walk to tournaments in the snow with only Chaoslaces to keep my shoes together..." *old-timer procedes to loudly smack toothless gums together*
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
Don't laugh at Chaoslaces! I made great efforts to get a full set of Laces - it was hard - they're Rare, you know...

..the first tourney I entered I used both Chaoslaces and Purelaces...I was so proud of having those and my four Plateaus...they worked great w/ CoP Red and Whites...

But, back on topic, yes, I own a Lotus - but, I don't use it to fuel sick combo decks - I use it to get out my favourite critters and expensive artifacts - you know, the original reason for it...BUT, if this card was reprinted (along w/ the five original Moxes) and un-restricted no one will need to use creatures any more - hell, you won't even need Land - you can have first turn kills w/o even trying...even if we remove all those cards that Zvi wants banned - someone will find new cards to degenerate...

-ferret

"...can't wait to get my mits on the MM spoiler so I can rip it to shreds..."
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
I haven't actually played with Lion's Eye so I have no idea if it was good before OR after the errata but...

people seem to get confused about the statement that 6th would change strategies and make players look at cards in a new light. I think this was meant to use cards differently within the context of the 6th rules (i.e. impulsing for a counterspell) that change the way the card works inherently (Waylay and Lion's Eye). If the card itself functions differently, then it needs errata to get back to how it functioned in the first place.
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
Interesting point, Tom. When you look at some of the crap commons that WotC puts out each set you think they have a quota of useless cards they have to put out each set...not to mention the occasional Rare that is so terrible that people scream when they see one (remeber the Laces?).

And the worst part is that we'll keep buying the cards and praying for nice ones and maybe get 0 or 1 of the ones we're looking for while our shoeboxes and binders get overfilled w/ commons...

-ferret

"...why not print less commons, but multiple artworks, again?"
 

TomB

Administrator
Staff member
Why, Spiderman?

Why shouldn't the new rules allow old, lame cards no one had any use for to become semi-useful? Do you like getting useless cards when you open booster packs? I sure don't.

I work hard for my money, and when I spend it on something that turns out to be useless I feel a little like I got cheated. If circumstances change, and the thing I thought I wasted my money on becomes useful, I feel vindicated.

Then WotC says, effectively, "No, no, no. We MEANT that card to be lame!"

Now I really feel cheated! :(

Understand?

TomB
CPA Member
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Hey, I have nothing against rules making old cards great. I have nothing against new sets making old cards great (see High Tide). However, I have a problem with rules CHANGING the way the card was originally supposed to work (maybe for the better, maybe for the worse) and then people yelling to keep the card.

Waylay and Lion's Eye were decent cards to begin with and decks could be made the way they were supposed to work. All of a sudden the new rules make them into powerhouses (which, quite frankly, I don't think ANYONE would have known about if this "tech" hadn't been revealed at whatever tourney it is) (well, Lion's Eye maybe). If Waylay wasn't meant for the tokens to stick around for at least two turns, why didn't anyone complain when it first came out? Why didn't anyone say "you know, this card would kick ass if these tokens stayed around during my opponent's turn and I could attack with them". The rules should not force the card to change and if they do, the card should be changed back so it functions as it was supposed to.

Barring all of that, I have no idea what was up with the different versions of Fog.

As for opening up packs and getting useless cards, I agree, I hate it too, but look at the picture here. Without making every card the same, there is no way that every card is going to be useful. One could call it a design flaw from the beginning about having the vanilla creatures and then putting in, say, the spell shapers now. But because there are so many cards out there that HAVE been made, some are better than others, no doubt. And because of the evolving tourney scene, some are probably better for Sealed and Draft than Constructed. The only thing I can say about it is to recognize that you're going to get useless cards and either:

a) find a way of making them useful :)
b) trade them away to some collector
c) stop buying packs :) and trade/buy the cards single

Anyway, my original point was that people keep referring to that one quote about 6th rules and the way cards work and it's true, but more how the cards interact than any one card by itself.
 

TomB

Administrator
Staff member
Spiderman, I think you're being way too generous when you say that the Lion's Eye Diamond and Waylay were decent cards to begin with. I've never seen or heard of a tournament level deck that used either one, before the rule changes. Come to think of it, I don't think I've ever seen either one in casual play either.

And I think you grossly overstate the case when you refer to these 2 cards and say they became "powerhouses". I'll admit they became much stronger than they were previously, but then, before that they were absolutely horrible. It wouldn't take much to improve on that.

I think your example of High Tide DID become a powerhouse. And I think Urza's Saga is the root of all that is evil in this game.


I realize that not every card in every pack will be useful, but that doesn't stop me from feeling good when a "sub-optimal" card becomes decent. That I feel ripped off when WotC gives, then takes away is probably just a personal problem of mine.

In that though, I know I am not alone.

TomB
CPA Member
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Perhaps I am being generous. :). And I certainly didn't mean to imply or say that *I* thought they were powerhouses.

However, people should emulate High Tide and see how cards could interact in different ways with 6th rules. For instance, Power Surge might be more viable because you have more opportunities to sink your mana into regenerators since you can set up shields.

If Waylay and Lion's Eye could become more viable using that kind of interaction I wouldn't have a problem with it. But trying to make a case for changing the card I do. Same with the "untap land creatures" (although they probably should have been playtested more) and reaching back into antiquity the good 'ol Rukh Egg.
 
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