Type One fixes

A

Azhrei

Guest
I play casually almost exclusively, and always in the Type One format. While I agree wholeheartedly with the recent banning of Memory Jar, the continued existence of the Tolarian Academy and Yawgmoth's Bargain are contributing tp a focus on combos in Type One play. I think that we should urge the DCI to ban the Academy and restrict the Bargain at this time. Bargain may end up having to be banned as well, simply because the ability to draw so many cards in Type One is too abusive, even in that format. First turn combo-kills are bad in any format, and are much more common in Type One than they should be. At least the Hurkyl's Recall decks were fragile, whereas Academy with Crop Rotation and p9 are simply overwhelming.
 
L

Limner

Guest
Type I should be an unrestricted format without limitation except to require a limit of 4 of any one card, 60 plus cards in the main and 15 in the side.
There needs to be a format in which players can fully abuse the cards. I think this would give those players that wish to play Channel-Fireball a format in which to participate while having little or no effect on the rest of the players who do not.
In fact I cannot understand DCI even having a banned/restricted list for a format in which they have very little interest.
 

TomB

Administrator
Staff member
Limner, you're right, and it's a point I made in a submission to the Dojo a couple of months ago. With the current state of Type 1, they oughta' either restrict everything (Highlander) or they should unrestrict/unban everything, except, of course, the ante cards and things like Divine Intervention, and Shahrazad. Since so many cards effectively duplicate effects at this point (Time Walk/Time Warp/Second Chance/ Time Vault/Final Fortune, Timetwister/Time Spiral, etc...) it seems senseless to even have a restricted list - especially since some of those cards aren't on it.

By unrestricting everything, you'd at least inject interest into what has been a dead format for a while now, except among old guys like me, and we're disgusted (generally speaking) with the current state the format is in. Most people won't even try to build Type 1 decks anymore - mostly because now, more than ever, the games are decided by the coin toss. If you go first you'll win, unless you have really bad luck.

On the other hand, and this ties in with the thread on Highlander, if you restrict everything people will be forced to get creative if they want to build that ultimate combo deck, or, most likely, they won't be able to build it. Decks would instead get built with a lot of soft combos and cards that would have good synergy together. It would take a lot of skill to build and play those decks and have them perform consistently.

I'm not sure which idea I like better, but I agree with you on one point for sure - things must change, or no one will ever enjoy playing Type 1 competitively again.

TomB
CPA Member
"I'd sell these Moxes but no one wants them..."
 
A

Azhrei

Guest
Eliminating the restricted list is the absolute WORST idea there could be for Type One. Top decks would be guaranteed first turn kills every single time, which would make the whole format dependant on who went first. Clearly, this is not the way to go. In fact, the only thing that adds to the coin toss environment is combo decks like Academy and Bargain, both of which need to be removed to reinvigorate the format. As far as a purely Highlander style goes, the thought of making a two color deck with only one dual land is ridiculous. While Highlander is a great format, it should be kept as a modification to different types, not a type in and of itself.
 

TomB

Administrator
Staff member
Azhrei,
You wouldn't neccessarily need to restrict duals if you wanted to try to make it work, and, as far as it goes, with 1 City of Brass, 1 Undiscovered Paradise, 1 Rainbow Vale, 1 Thran Quarry, 1 Gemstone Mine, 1 Thawing Glacier, 1 Mox Diamond, 1 Painland of your choice, and don't forget the Moxes and Black Lotus, and you could do it. 3, 4 & 5 color decks would be harder, that's for sure, and you'd take a lot of damage, but it could work. Most of your type 1 decks have a lot of artifacts in them anyway, and even though playing Highlander would reduce you to using just 1 at a time there are so many decent ones now you wouldn't need to worry about more than 1 color, in terms of creatures, at least. In fact, if you think about it, by only having 1 of each dual allowed you might cut down on the number of people playing 4 & 5 colors, reducing the number of people with every single restricted list card in their decks. This would be "some good", methinks.

TomB
CPA Member
"Now where did I put those Juggernauts, and Clockwork Avians..."
 
L

Limner

Guest
While I agree that an unrestricted format might lead to winning games on a coin flip it is not unreasonable to want a format in which you can play with all of your cards. After all we already have several formats in which cards are banned and/or restricted where a player can participate under guidelines designed to promote longer more interactive games. I am simply suggesting that a format in which you are allowed to play the most abusive of deck designs. If this doesn't appeal to you play in one of the other formats that ban or restrict these designs. Indeed if you want a format in which you can play your power nine without the specter of 99% 1st turn wins play the suggested Highlander variant. I agree that it would be more difficult to play multi-color decks it is far from immpossible with the multitude of multi-colored lands available and search cards that can retrieve them. Just some thoughts...the Limner.
 
G

GeneralStamp

Guest
T1 is a great format, and must not die !!!
We CPA members must unite to save the less popular formats. Somethings must also be done about the banned restricted list. I'm not sure what, but something.
 
N

nekrataal

Guest
There is a great article on the dojo frontpage that involve easy fixes to stopping combo decks dead in their tracks. Check it out, I rather enjoyed it: http://www.thedojo.com/b993/bo.990810gha.shtml

-nekrataal
"Stroke, Bargain, Bargain, Stroke, Sliver, Stroke, Bargain, Bargain...hey, whats that Sliver deck doing in the top 8?
 

TomB

Administrator
Staff member
You're right. It is a terrific article, and I'm glad to see where someone built a deck with the neccessary elements in it to beat the "metagame deck of choice". Too often the PTP's, and PTP wannabes find it much easier to just whine about a card's unfairness, or power (depending on your perspective). It seems like they'd rather have the DCI step in and shut the card/combo down than to have to figure out how to stop it themselves. Greg and Michelle Harter, the authors, certainly earned my respect with that performance.

TomB
CPA Member
"Hmmm...Now where can I get me some Chains..."
 
Z

Zadok001

Guest
Ok, just out of curiousity, why the hell _did_ they ban Divine Intervention and Shaharazad? They're anything but overpowered (Divine Intervention costs 8 freakin' mana, for God's sake!), and Shaharazad is a really fun card (though it makes for _long_ games :) ). Why are these cards banned in every format known to man?

Tell me one single way Divine Intervention would mess up the type 1 enviroment. Chances are, it wouldn't even affect all them Power 9 players. And Shaharazad would do nothing but confuse the living hell out of the combo players of the world, which is _not_ a bad thing, by any stretch of the imagination. Besides, watching your a game that takes up a full tournement table is really, _really_, fun. :)

--Zadok001, aka Greater Good fanatic
 

TomB

Administrator
Staff member
Divine Intervention was banned because it forces a draw - the exact opposite of what you are looking for when 2 players square off in a duel. I wasn't aware of the cost (I don't think I've ever seen one, as it was banned before my time) but you're right, it should be allowed in the current environment since it'll never work.

Of course, if that's the case, who cares?

Shahrazad was banned because of the time factor, which was significant at the time because a whole lot of people were playing controllish blue decks, and would often end up "up against it" time wise in their 3rd game. It would mess up those combo decks though, wouldn't it. Especially the ones with cards like Time Spiral, which get removed from the game when cast.

Now that you mention it, I remember playing with my cards all spread out like you describe. It was because of Chaos Orb. It made it really hard to figure out how many dudes your opponent had available to attack at any given time, and sometimes caused you to forget exactly what you had in play.

I don't really miss that all that much.

TomB
CPA Member
"Ahh, the memories..."
 
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