Vintage Dimir Deck Help...

[DarthFerret]

Ok, I built a Deck for every house (Except for Selesnya and Boros) and while building the Dimir Deck, I noticed that it followed the same basic theme as one of my other decks. So, I went ahead and spliced the two together. I played it against my wife last night, and was surprised at how eficiently I won the game. I know there are holes in it, so I need y'alls help. Keep in mind that my budget (especially for older cards) is small.

Creatures:

4 Lurking Informant
4 Vedalken Entrancer
4 Dimir House Guard
3 Dimir Infiltrator
1 Dimir Guildmage (all I have)
1 Tattered Drake
1 Ambassador Laquatus
1 Szadek, Lord of Secrets

Spells:

4 Consult the Necrosages
2 Psychic Drain
2 Lobotomy
1 Drift of Phantasms
1 Haunting Echos
1 Ribbons of Night
1 Clutch of the Undercity
1 Shred Memory
1 Dimir Machinations
1 Induce Paranoia
1 Denying Wind
1 Time Spiral

Artifacts:

2 Tormod's Crypts
3 Dimir Signets

Lands:

4 Dimir Aqueduct
2 Duskmantle, House of Shadow
7 Swamps
7 Islands

I think the deck uses the transmute pretty well, and I know it can eventually remove their entire library from the game. I am looking for a little more stall and a bit quicker removal..

 

[DarthFerret]

Should I take the lack of comment on this as it needs no help?

Or is it just so sorry of a deck there is no way to help it?

 

[Force of Will Smith]

psychic drain is really not a good choice.. the amount of cards you mill isn't really worth not being able to drain life from a creature.

i'd have to see it playing.. dimir builds are strange to gage.

 

[DarthFerret]

Well, come visit me in TX and we can play test it (along with about 10 other decks that I have built yet never tested). My wife will only play very occasionally.

 

[Limited]

Sorry that I haven't chimed in sooner, but here goes:

First of all, why is Drift of Phantasms not a creature? Assuming this is an oversight, the more important issue is why are you playing only one? its a 0/5 defender and though it won't kill anything in combat, I think its a better card than Tattered Drake.

I've found that Tidewater Minion is an excellent card in Dimir Mill decks; it either for mana or untaps an Entrancer so you can mill faster. I'd add three.

Next, the Psychic Drain seems important, milling your opponent and giving you a couple of extra turns. You really need the lifegain, so I'd add another (perhaps even two).

To prevent helping an graveyard-recursion based deck, you are now using a single Shred Memories and a couple of Tormods Crypt. I'd pick something like Withered Wretch or Scrabbling Claws..

Lastly, I think that Denying Winds is too expensive and that Time Spiral doesn't quite fit in this deck; you shuffling your opponents graveyard back into their library!

 

[Koie]

I understand you say you have a limited budget, so I will keep my suggestions with that in mind.

First off, the only card in the deck that makes it vintage is time spiral, so my first suggestion is, remove the time spiral and call it a legacy deck. Otherwise you would need to add other cards that are a tad pricey, to make the deck better.

Also, other suggestions I will try to rank from cheap to not as cheap:

Dark Rituals, at least 3, maybe 4. It's too good a card not to use.
Lotus Petals. If you make this a legacy deck then I'd say get 4.
Try to get some Dimir Cutpurses, those guys kick butt. Findmagiccards.com has them at 2-8 a piece. not bad really.
Hypnotic Specter, you can get fourth ed. ones for around $5 a piece... nothing is better than a turn one swamp, ritual, hyppie...
Psychatog, only because others would suggest it.
lym-dul's vault, one of the more underrated cards out of alliances, and there for cheap to purchase.
counter spells and bounce spells, take your pick... lots to choose from. Chain of vapor and echoing truth seems to be the most popular bounce. The best of all counter spells is Force of Will. Expensive I know, but the price of these will never drop, they will always go up. I personally also like Arcane Denial myself.
Duress, Hymn to Tourach... most places sell these two cards for a dollar or two, and for goood reason, they are mean!
On the more expensive front:
Mox Diamond and Chrome Mox, you can run four of each in Legacy. Granted they are a bit much, but thats because they are good cards. A worthwhile investment considering they probably won't go down in price much.
Polluted Delta, Watery Grave, Underground Sea. I know that these cards are pricey, specially the last one. But I promise you, the price of these cards will never go down, always up, and once you get a set of these babies you will never regret it.

 

[DarthFerret]

Limited: Unfortunately, I only have 1 drift of phantasms, and 1 Tattered Drake, That is why they are both there. Also, to let you know up front, there is no shop where I live now, so it is at least a 30 min. trip to go get any specific cards. However, they are going on my list.

Agree with the Tidewater Minion, never thought about him like that, will add them. Unfortunately do not have any more psychic drains right now, however will also put at least 1 more on my list..

Got one Whithering Wretch, no scrabbled claws...

Koie, I do not want to take the deck that far from type 2. Really am kinda looking now at going type 2 with it, but not sure how to accomplish it....here is an updated deck list....

Critters: 20

1 Ambasador Laquatus
3 Infiltrators (can trans to find a signet, Psychic Drain, or Shred)
3 Tidewater Minions (thanks Limited)
1 Withered Wretch (thanks again!)
4 Dimir House Guards (trans to find the entrancers, or just attack)
1 Szadek Lord of Secrets
1 Drift of Phantasms (looking for more)
1 Tattered Drake (will replace with drift)
1 Dimir Guildmage (mainly flavor, but still a 2/2 for 2)
4 Vedalkan Entrancer

Spells: 15

1 Ribbons of Night (just cannot seem to take it out)
2 Induce Paranoia (expensive, but I like it)
4 Consult the Necrosages
1 Haunting Echos
3 Lobotomy (found a third..woo hoo)
1 Dimir Machinations (wish I had more)
1 Shred Memory (only have 1 so far)
2 Psychic Drains

Artifacts: (5)

2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Dimir Signet

Land:

4 Dimir Aqueduct
2 Duskmatle, House of Shadow
7 Island
7 Swamp

I know that eventually I will have to take out the Lobotomy, haunting echoes, crypts, and the Ambassador to go type 2, but not sure what to replace with. (also will have to lose the Withered Wretch)

Any more suggestions leaning towards type 2?

 

[Limited]

You could try to get your hands on Dimir Doppelganger; at least, it removes creature cards from graveyards to stop abuse, but turning it into a Living Inferno or something can be pretty funny.
It also combo's nicely with Szadek; if the Doppelganger becomes Szadek and gets +1/+1 counters, it keeps those counters when it becomes something else

 

[DarthFerret]

That would work for replacing the Ambassador, any ideas on the spell replacements?

 

[Koie]

if you add doppleganger, what about Phage the Untouchable?! Ok, so it isn't type 2, but copying infiltrator and then phage is just too evil

 

[DarthFerret]

cannot copy phage, he is legendary, but yeah...that would be pretty evil, only problem is I don't have phage.

 

[Limited]

if you add doppleganger, what about Phage the Untouchable?! Ok, so it isn't type 2, but copying infiltrator and then phage is just too evil

cannot copy phage, he is legendary, but yeah...that would be pretty evil, only problem is I don't have phage.

Actually, you can 'copy' Phage with Dimir Doppelganger, because he becomes a copy of the creature card you removed from the game (so there won't be two Phages roaming about) and because the Doppelganger was already in play, you don't die because of Phage's you-shall-not-reanimate-me clause.

As for the rest of the deck..

You'll need plenty of land, but you seem to have enough early drops that you might not really need the Signets. Why play mana when you've got business? Dimir Infiltrator is a great card for this deck, because its a 1/3 for only two mana.
Next, I'm thinking that you need to find the cards, but Consult the Necrosages seems a bit slow.. How about Lorebroker? Will also help to fill your opponents graveyards with lots of goodies!
I love Dimir House Guard, but in this deck it can only transmute for Vedalken Entrancer (which you are playing four of) and Induce Paranoia (which you don't want to announce to your opponent). Its a cute creature on its own, but I think we can do better.
I've added three Dimir Doppelganger and because of them, also another Szadek.
Shred Memory is nice, but I'd perhaps drop the lone copy.
I think the important spells from your deck are Psychic Drain and some removal spells. I personally love Clutch of the Undercity, because it can bounce any permanent. You could also consider Peel from Reality or Last Gasp. For now, I'll let your Dimir Machinations stay, but I think Drift of Phantasms will definitely be better.

Creatures (22)
4x Dimir Infiltrators
3x Dimir Doppelganger (*added*)
1x Dimir Guildmage
1x Drift of Phantasms
4x Lorebroker (*added*)
2x Szadek Lord of Secrets
3x Tidewater Minions
4x Vedalkan Entrancer
Spells (14)
4x Clutch the Undercity
1x Dimir Machinations
3x Induce Paranoia (expensive, but I like it)
3x Psychic Drains
2x Ribbons of Night (just cannot seem to take it out)
Lands (24)
4x Dimir Aqueduct
2x Duskmatle, House of Shadow
9x Island
9x Swamp

There.. I still think you need to find three Drift of Phantasms or perhaps find a couple of Circu, Dimir Lobotomist and try those..

 

[DarthFerret]

yeah...agree with the drifts, and the dopplegangers. I will have to look up Lorebroker as I do not know what it is. As for the Circu, I wish. Not sure where I can get a hold of a couple of them. I like the direction you took this so far, and may experiment with some Last Gasps. I will play around a little with this and see what kind of results I get.