How rare are magiccards?

K

Killerbob

Guest
Does anyone know a where I can find the number of printed cards from each set since alpha? It would be nice to know how rare these portalcards are, since they are legal now.
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
You probably have to do some maths, dividing printrun sizes by card rarity.

There something like under a dozen blue hurricanes, and (I believe) even fewer of the misprinted Serendib Djinn.
 
A

Annorax

Guest
This information isn't publicly released anymore. Good luck.
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
However, it seems that Portal 3 had a pretty low printruns, and that the English language printrun was even lower...
 
O

orgg

Guest
English Portal Three was printed about a quarter of the printrun. A chinese P3 has three cards printed for every one English card printed.
 
N

Nightstalkers

Guest
Try using programs like Apprentice and Magic Suitcase. They usually have them all listed pretty well on their lists.
 
N

Nightstalkers

Guest
Spiderman said:
They don't have the print run though, do they?
Some of the older ones had some of that info.

I don't think I have any of that stuff on disk anymore...
 
T

TheCasualOblivion

Guest
Starting with I believe Ice Age, they did away with print runs and started the policy of printing to demand for a specific period of time. There really isn't a definite print run. I remember them announcing that back then, and I assume it is still the case.

One would think the blocks from Ice Age-Urza's Saga would be somewhat more plentiful, since magic has waned a little from its heyday, at least it seems that way. I'd say the basic sets from 5th on might actually be less common than 4th possibly is, since I'm pretty sure 4th was the last core set that was anywhere near as popular as the expansions. Back during 4th we bought more 4th than expansions, and I'm almost positive that has never been true since. I would also assume that people bought more of the popular expansions, like Tempest and Invasion blocks than stuff like Mercadian Masques.

This is all pure speculation.
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
I only remember that policy for Fallen Empires, where of course demand was so great that there was a glut for the longest time. After that, I think they reverted back to a print run.

Nightstalkers: At least for Suitcase, I don't think the info is now available. It's currently in version 8 with version 7 available but unsupported. I am actually now on the Magic Suitcase team doing expansion db updates and I've done BOK and Unhinged so far, and there's no info about print runs in the db for them.

It may have been true for older versions pre-7, but I don't think the programs or dbs are easily available now. You'd definitely have to do some digging.
 
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TheCasualOblivion

Guest
I'm pretty sure the "print to demand" thing started with Ice Age and continued from there. Fallen Empires was printedin ridiculous quanities (intentionally and pre-deternined) because of the bad experience from Wizards not producing enough of Legends, which is why a year later you could buy packs of Fallen Empires for .50 to .75 cents. So they printed Ice Age without a set print number but simply printed to demand over a period of time. I think a lot of people ordered more Ice Age than necessary expecting a future shortage, but it wasn't that bad and I think that behavior calmed down over time.

I'm not sure they did this for the smaller sets originally, since I remember they did a small reprint of Alliances after the original print because there was still a lot of demand for it. Alliances went from about $5-$7 a pack before the reprint back down to $3.00 for a time. Homelands never had that problem, since nobody liked it.

I think the printed to demand thing might be a big reason the print runs are unknown. They might not actually keep track. There were print runs published for a lot of the early sets, but those print runs were decided on before the sets were relased back then. If they just print to demand over a period of time, they might not actually keep a hard count, and those numbers just might not exist. I'm sure they could look at the books and get an estimate, but nothing as exact as the original.
 
T

TheCasualOblivion

Guest
It was explained at the time as being something like: no definite print run, company would print what retailers would order over a set period of time.
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
I'm not sure by what "set period of time" is - I mean, I thought WOTC would do one print run and the retailers/wholesalers/whomever order from that. If 6 months go by and they need another box or two of boosters, they order from WOTC and they send out from their current stock; they don't re-print the cards :confused:

But as to the first part of the "definition", it definitely started with Fallen Empires (seeing as how it was released before Ice Age). I remember reading about it somewhere, perhaps a Duelist? where all the buyers "pre-ordered" what they thought they needed ahead of time and WOTC printed to match that demand. The problem was the due to the success of the past Magic expansions and its popularity, people ordered WAY too much - where they might have gotten 2 boosters boxes before, they would order 10. WOTC print run was dependent on those pre-orders and the buyers were stuck with all the excess when demand didn't reach supply.

I did a quick check on CrystalKeep and Fallen Empires is the only expansion where they offer a print run range. Before and after that (at least through Ice Age "block"), except for maybe the Alpha/Beta run, no numbers are given. So I think after the Fallen Empires experience, WOTC went back and printed a smaller print run that was pre-set and not determined by buyers preorders or wants.
 
R

Rooser

Guest
If they've been printing to demand since Ice Age then I imagine that the more recent sets are in fact more plentiful. I don't know why casual gamers convince themselves that Magic is somehow less popular now than it used to be. Wizards' sales of each set have been steadily increasing, more pointedly so since Invasion, and shows no signs of stopping - even with MTGO taking some of their market share. Brief hiccups due to affinity aside, the game is more popular now than it's ever been, and the same will probably be true next year. Of course, the numbers might be stilted since the popularity of drafts has really taken off in the last couple years.
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Rooser said:
I don't know why casual gamers convince themselves that Magic is somehow less popular now than it used to be.
I think that many of them don't see the younger/newer players, and because many of their friends have quit, and fewer people in their own age groups are joining, they get the impression that Magic is now less popular. I don't know how many casual players this happens with, but I have seen it, and it may contribute the phenomenon...
 
T

TheCasualOblivion

Guest
As far as the magic being less popular now than it was before, this is my impression:

Back when I started playing, magic was the king. There are a number of geek pastimes: Computers, Video games, Dungeons and Dragons, Live Action Role Playing, Goth, Music, comic books, ect... Back then, magic was #!, and there was no doubt about that. Magic was head and shoulders #1 until Pokemon became huge with the kids. Pokemon was a decent game, but some of the people playing it really gave it a bad name. At the same time, its popularity did give some challenge to the supremacy of magic which had never happened before. As the Pokemon fad faded, the bad name it deservedly or not gave CCGs didn't entirely fade, and playing magic has had a somewhat "less cool" image withing the geek community ever since, though still very popular.

In the intervening years, I've been active in the theater company at the local community college(we happen to be blessed with a fantastic director). Being on campus as much as I am, I keep in touch with the younger generations, as being 28 doesn't take away from being accepted by the geeks, especially at a community college packed with people 25+. All the geek pastimes are there, and even some new ones. Magic is no longer the undisputed king anymore. 8-10 years ago, every person there would play magic, and magic would be the main focus of our getting together. Nowadays half the people in our little group don't even play. To be perfectly honest, its not as easy to drop by the local gaming store to play a few games anymore either.


On top of the above, I think the evolution of the game has had something to do with the (perceived) drop in popularity. The game was a lot more accessible when I started playing. First off, people hadn't discovered the power of the net-game yet, and back before Tempest(what I would consider the first "modern" set) newbie decks and Tournament decks were a lot closer together in competitiveness than they are now. Back then there really wasn't the card base to build a 1-2 mana deck, or decks as fast as the ones we see today, even with the undercosted overpowered cards. Hell, the original Sligh often packed Shivan Dragons, can you imagine that today! On top of that, we still had disruptive cards like Swords to Plowshares, Hymn to Tourach, and others outside of the play balance that were powerful enough in their own right to give a weaker deck more of a chance. Between the proliferation of internet strategy and the evolved card base, a newbie coming into the game back then would not lose as badly as a newbie coming into the game today. The investment in cards and gameplay knowledge to actually compete(just to be able to win games against your friends and the local guys at the card store) today is a lot steeper than it was when I first started playing. I think the game doesn't get new players as easily because of this.
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
I think back in the day, Magic was also the "novelty" and everyone wanted to play the "new kid on the block". Plus you had the out of print cards of Revised and before still running around and prices for cards were still shaking out (when I started, the game was barely a year old).

Nowadays, the game is ten years old and "matured" (however you might want to take that) and people realize, first and foremost, that it generally takes a steady monetary commitment to play. Yeah, you can trade if you're really dedicated and not spend money, but let's face it, a lot of people buy booster boxes or boosters here and there and not spend too much time on trading. Additionally with what Oversoul said, people get older and start having to put their money towards other things like bills :) So you go back to the other games or hobbies where it doesn't require such a monetary commitment. The closest is maybe computer games but you can wait to buy them as they drop in the bargain bin. But D&D and table-top war-gaming, all of those don't require a constant upkeep (unless you're really a die-hard fan, but we're talking in general, right?)
 
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