Another Stupid Deck - Life Gain

M

Master Shake

Guest
This one is a little over done, but I think it can be fuin with ageless Entinity.

White:

4x Nomads En-Kor
4x Warriro En-kor
4x Shaman En-Kor
4x Task Force
4x Daru Spirilualist
4x Worthy Cause
4x Test of Endurance

Green:

4x Ageless Entinity

Gold:

4x Armadillo Cloak

Land:

4x Windswept Heath
4x Savannah
4x Starlit Sanctun
6x Forest
6x Plains

Once again, no time to esplain, but I will start writing up articles.
 
T

train

Guest
I'd say drop the cloaks and go with the Loxodon warhammers - they stay in play if the creature leaves...;)

Lifebursts and Isochron scepter would also be cool!...
 
R

Rooser

Guest
How quickly we forget that Armadillo Cloaks are a beating and that they only cost three. If you're already playing green/white, the investment of six mana is not worth it, especially since the creature's toughness stays small. Train is wrong. Cloaks are god.
 
G

GauntletKing

Guest
Theres nothing wrong with life gain on every creature. The warhammers are good too, you can continue to apply offensive pressure and double the chances of EARLY life gain.

wheres that new artifact that lets you pay X to draw X cards when you gain life? Test of Endurance is icky poo poo. maybe only 2.

Wait a minute. Is redirected damage DEALT? If it is, oh my goodness.
 
R

Reverend Love

Guest
Too many 4 ofs.

What about tweaking it for clerics? They've got stuff like:

Doubtless One
Cabal Archon
Academy Rector (for fetching Noble Purpose, Test of Endurance)
Ancestor's Prophet
Faith Healer
Soul Warden
Teroh's Faithful

Combined with the starlit sanctum the clerics provide a nice boost of life or a punch in the face for a unlucky opponent. Don't even get me started on the synergy of Cabal Archon and Academy Rector either! (I'm currently rolling with a cleric/Day of Dragons deck using that particular trick for a quick Day of Dragons)

Or if don't want to do that just slap in Ancestor's Chosen. He'd be pretty beastily when running with all those spellshapers.
 
M

Master Shake

Guest
Too many 4-ofs?!

---------------------------
---------------------------\
Part 1 of the life gain combo

4x Nomads En-Kor
4x Warriro En-kor
4x Shaman En-Kor

Part 2 of the life gain combo

4x Task Force
4x Daru Spirilualist

Part 3 of the life gain combo

4x Worthy Cause
4x Starlit Sanctum
---------------------------/
---------------------------

Those cards are staples, they prevent you from dying from damage. Consistant turn 3-5 infinite life seems like a good idea to me.

The Test of Endurance can be cut to 2 or even 1, but I was in a rush when writing the deck list, so it was more simple to write 4x

So that leaves:

4x Ageless Entinity
4x Armadillo Cloak

My question is, why would you not want to run 4x of each of these?

Why not the Loxodon? Because it is a huge drain on resources. Cloak may only be a one use, but it is better for the same reason that Bonesplitter is inferor to Rancor (Even if Rancor did not bounce back.) Loxodon may give a bigger boost, but I can almost guarntee that if you test it, you will find that Armadillo Cloak will work ten times better.
 
T

train

Guest
Armadillo cloak will also hit the graveyard ten times more...;)

you're not showing any speed mana anyway - so you miss one turn... If you were running the speed mana i'd understand - but your deck isn't... It's normal weenie... minus crusades/anthems...

Your looking for life gain... and the best way to get there for the test of endurance, between cloak and warhammer, is the warhammer... permanent life gain = great jump towards test of endurance...

As I said - if you'd like to run the speed mana I'll understand...;) :D :cool:
 
M

Mikeymike

Guest
Well of Lost Dreams seems like a great card, but I don't think it's quite right for this deck.

The big problem with the Well is gaining too much life, because you must pay exactly X mana to draw X cards from gaining X life - there is no "Draw up to..." with this. Minus the Sanctums and Worthy Causes (which both tie up mana needed to activate the Well), this deck gains life in large amounts - and probably won't be able to afford the Well's cost on a reliable basis. Tough to say w/o testing, but that'd be my guess.

An interesting addition would be Sigil of a New Dawn, as it combos all ugly-like with the Causes and Sanctums - but again it ties up mana that I don't know if the deck can afford.

Also, is there any white/green creature that allows you to re-direct damage to you? I know Treacherous Link will do it, but being a black enchant creature doesn't help much here.

Again, it seems as if your deck wants to work as quickly as possible. But if it can afford it, try 2 copies of Krosan Verge in here. They accelerate your land draws - and fetch 2 dual lands. They don't look like the right fit here, but they are worth keeping in mind. I have a lot of experience with this card and they never let me down (though they are at their strongest in W/G/X+ control).

I'm assuming that this deck is more a combo deck than anything and wants to win/inf-life-combo ASAP. If this is the case, then yes the Cloak is better. If it is meant to bide time thru lifegain and be a longterm deck (esp. for MP) then I do feel the Warhammers are the better choice. They are much better in longer games, esp a game with multiple opponents which increase the chances of losing 2-1 on your enchanted creatures.

I'd still consider them, even though they are slower. I know we've debated Cloak vs. Warhammer a lot, and I apologize for bringing it here, but there are certain aspects of how it interacts with your deck specifically that are worth pointing out.

* When your Entity dies (because it will), you'll still have a creature worth attacking with.

* Let's say you have an equipped creature on turn 5. You cast the Entity first main phase, gaining your life and making the Entity bigger during that attack phase while the Entity is still inactive. Turn 6 you move the Warhammer to the Entity and it is at least a 11+/8+ trampler which might just end the game. On turn 6 with the Cloak, it is a 6/6 trampler, and that is assuming that you didn't cast Cloak on one of your early creatures to make them dangerous threat.

* You are playing W/G with no card draw and you WILL stall. If your opponent picks up a 2-for-1 on your enchanted creature, it will hurt your recouperation process even more. Lets say you are top-decking mid/late game b/c someone WoG'ed - that 1/2 Shaman en-Kor is not going to help you much...but a 4/2 Spirit-linked en-Kor might. In other words, as long you have a Warhammer in play, every creature you draw is a threat. And when you are top-decking, you won't care how much the Warhammer's equip cost is b/c you'll be too busy kissing its' butt :D.

I suppose the key difference is this: When the deck is working like its supposed to, you'd prefer the Cloak to help you end it ASAP. When the deck isn't working like its supposed to, you'd much rather have the Warhammer so you're not bringing a knife to a gun fight.

OK, done. Thanks for bearing with me.

But...I can't agree with you about Rancor being better than Bonesplitter b/c of speed reasons; it is a better card b/c it gives the creature trample along with being reusable. It is the trample that makes the power boost so much more effective.

Well, that was much longer than I expected. Hope it helps.
 
R

Reverend Love

Guest
I'm a strong believer in the "Too many 4 ofs" rule. In general when viewing or testing a deck I've noticed that when a deck consists of:

4 This Creature
4 That Creature
4 Some other Creature or spell or whatever..

Then probably it needs more tweaking, testing or just plain more thought invested. I'm not saying this is applicable here because it might not be.. I haven't played your deck. It's just a small aspect of Magic which I've noticed over the years. Now granted there's bound to be some decklists roaming the web which would blow my whole mo-mo casual rule to hell but in 99% of deck-building I truly think this concept holds true.

Note: Combo generally blows this out the window because of combo's inherent focus on a particular set of cards hitting play.

Also maybe I'm just not seeing it but I fail to see how this is infinite life. Yea you can gobble up one of your dudes for maybe 6 life..that's if they were clerics or IF your lucky enough to draw a Task Force. You can't bounce damage back and forth due to their damage prevention abilities.... Your gonna have to enlighten the old Reverend :)

I Think running 4 of the entity is a good idea actually. I've been tinkering with a Scepter lifegain deck myself and old Ageless has done well so far. He gets beastly VERY fast.

Armadillo Cloaks Vs. Pachyderm Hammer...the eternal casual debate has begun. In truthfulness I believe your casual metagame will dictate which you role with. My play group would only be TOO happy to get a 1 for two on Armadillo Cloak. Yours sounds completely different..and all the power to ya. I personally believe due to the hammer's vulnerabilities not also being that of a creature's makes it the better choice more often then naught.

Here's the easy way of putting it:

Enchantment Kill Cards And Creature Kill Cards can handle the Armadillo Cloak

ONLY Artifact Control cards can touch the hammer...it's inherently more resistant due to equipment "falling off"…and just like Mikey pointed, thereafter every creature hitting your side of the board will simply pick up that hammer and start-uh swing’n!

In the world of Casual multiplayer you've gotta keep your cards on the table.

BTW I love lifegain too..there's nothing like eating 24 points in one round and saying "That's all you got...I'll gain MORE then that during the end of your discard phase sucka!"
 
M

Master Shake

Guest
Love, I do not think you are familiar with the combo.

The Oracle text on any En-Kor is:

Card Ruling
Oracle 2000/02/01
Text(SH+errata):{0}: The next 1 damage that would be dealt to ~this~ this turn is dealt to target creature you control instead.

That means that there does not need to be damage to redirect, which allows you to target Task Force of Daru Spiritualist as many times as you want, each time you target them, they get +0/+3 or +0/+2 respectivly. Once you target them say 5353442301484564231 times over, the toughness becomes 16060326904453692693 and 10706884602969128462 respectivly. thus, not only is it going to be nearly impossible to deal damage to your creatures, but two of the 4 ofs in the deck will allow you to turn that into life for you. That seems slightly abusive to me.

When your life total becomes 16060326904453692713, your Ageless Entinity becomes rather large. Adding insult to injury, the armadillo cloak will not only make it larger and give it trample, but it will also spirit link it, which will double your life and then double its power. the cloak is more of a "ha!" card.

If you want to eliminate 4 ofs, you can add in World Tutor and Living Wish, which can make pulling the combo off much easier.
So, here is a revised list:

---------------------------
---------------------------\
Part 1: 8 Cards

4x Nomads En-Kor
4x Shaman En-Kor

Part 2: 7 Cards

3x Task Force
4x Daru Spirilualist

Part 3: 7 Cards (4 Spells, 3 Land)

4x Worthy Cause
3x Starlit Sanctum
---------------------------/
---------------------------

Support: 9 Cards

4x Living Wish
1x Eladamri's Call
4x Worldly Tutor

Humor: 8 Cards

2x Test of Endurance
2x Ageless Entinity
1x Serra Avatar
3x Armadillo Cloak/Loxodon Warhammer

Land:

4x Windswept Heath
4x Savannah
2x Brushland
4x Plains
4x Forest
(3x Starlit Sanctum)

Wish Target Sideboard:

1x Angelic Protector
1x Task Force
1x Starlit Sanctum
1x Warrior En-Kor
1x Serra Avatar
1x Ageless Entinity


Now that I have had more time to go through the list. How does that look? I doubt it will go off as fast, but now it has search tools.
 
G

GauntletKing

Guest
Mikey, you must've done that on purpose.

The wording on Well of lost dreams:

Whenever you gain life, you may pay X, where X is less than or equal to the amount of life you gained. If you do, draw X cards.


The well is the perfect answer to Mikey's "stall" accusation and will most certainly draw you into multiple copies of your win condition without adding the no fun pieces.

What that means is as long as you have a cloaked or warhammered creature to swing with and any amount of mana, you're going to draw cards at least 3 times as fast as most opponents. You can make that deck win just fine in MP because you're going to play land every turn and have multiple copies of your combo pieces in your hand.


Shake, does that oracle say what permanent deals the redirected damage? If it's the kor, then this deck goes off way too early.
 
T

train

Guest
Redirected damage is still from the same source - so the "dealer" of the damage doesn't change - only the "dealee"...

"Is that even a word?":rolleyes:
 
M

Mikeymike

Guest
Originally posted by GauntletKing
Mikey, you must've done that on purpose.

The wording on Well of lost dreams:

Whenever you gain life, you may pay X, where X is less than or equal to the amount of life you gained. If you do, draw X cards.

The well is the perfect answer to Mikey's "stall" accusation and will most certainly draw you into multiple copies of your win condition without adding the no fun pieces.B]
Well I feel like a dingleberry. I swear I've read that card 3 or 4 times and saw a mandatory X. Someone is messing with me....so for the time being I'll blame you GauntletKing :D

The Good: Its makes my 4 on order better, and me more happy
The Bad: Make Mike stupid! Mike no like stupid!

Given that X is whatever you want it to be, it is a nice space filler in here. You can really use the card draw.
 
R

Reverend Love

Guest
Aaaah ok, I thought damage had to be there before you could start redirecting. Cool combo!
 
Top