You Can't Do That In Type II!

I

Istanbul

Guest
Simple, really...

20x Forest
(one-drop)4x Llanowar Elf
(two-drop)4x River Boa
(two-drop)4x Kavu Titan
(three-drop)3x Horned Troll
(three-drop)4x Trained Armodon
(three-drop)4x Wild Mammoth
(four-drop)4x Blastoderm
(five-drop)2x Kavu Chameleon

4x Giant Growth
4x Seal of Strength
2x Hurricane

Sideboard:
4x Tranquility (Teferi's Moat, Story Circle, Fires)
4x Tranquil Grove (See Above)
3x Spidersilk Armor (Blazing Specter, Dragons)
2x Kavu Climber (...)
2x Treetop Bracers (...evasion?)

The general gist of this is that this deck needs some work. I want to reduce the overall casting cost of this deck. I also want to put in better sideboard cards in lieu of Tranquility, Kavu Climber, and Treetop Bracers. Wild Mammoth also needs to come out; it LOOKED good with all these creatures, but against creature-makers like Rith and creature-heavy decks like Rebels and Fires, I'm in trouble.

Help?
 
S

Sammy Dead-O

Guest
...Stampede Drivers to make sure you get good use out of Blastoderm. You could throw in a few Groundskeepers to get back some discarded land. Plus, you'd have a couple more one-drops this way. If you're really feeling daring, you could up the mana acceleration and add a couple Deadly Insects. Of course, the Insects wouldn't help with the lowering of the deck's overall cc at all.
 
Z

Zadok001

Guest
You can't do that!!!

My first concern would be having creatures that beat 'Derm. Using Giant Growth effectively achieves this in all 3/3s or bigger creatures, therefore, most of your major threats should be 3/3 or larger, neh?

Silt Crawler is obviously a fairly strong addition to the deck, allowing you some powerful fat for three mana without a severe drawback. HOWEVER, you already have Idols and Armadons, both of which are almost directly better than the Crawler in this deck, so I'd leave them out.

If you're going to count the Titans as two drops, I'd honestly put Elvish Archers in that slot instead. The difference between one and two toughness is not overly important in this environment, and First Strike _can_ be decisive. Also, the Archers are just better targets for Giant Growth, killing 'Derms for no card loss.

I'd actually be tempted to put in Birds and splash Wax/Wane. :) Rebel decks put in Brushlands and splash Wax. Here, we can put in Birds and splash Wane. How twisted is THAT?
 
M

Major Crime

Guest
Sideboard Distorting Lense. It helps against decks playing those 'nice' little Zombie Fish with Pro Green. I've an Elf deck which I've put them in as Dead fish decks are in the main around here.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Sammy - Problem is, I want my creatures to attack. Utility is nice, but it's got to be something pretty amazing.
Yellowjacket - Silt Crawler! Bingo! Out go the Wild Mammoths...
Zadok - I'm confused by a lot of what you say.
I'm not trying to beat Derm. I USE Derm. And with Growth/Seal, most of my creatures can block and kill the Derm.
I actually don't already have Idols in this deck. Not yet, anyway.
I count Kavu Titan as a two-drop because it can be. I want to keep it in there because it can ALSO be a five-drop if need be, granting me some flexibility. Still, I like the idea of Elvish Archers. (Kavu Chameleons go into the sideboard...and out come Kavu Climbers...)
Really don't wanna dip into a second color just for one spell. The whole point of this deck is to prove that mono-green is still a force. Hell, it went 2-2 last tournament, and that was missing two Kavu Titans, the Spidersilk Armors, and the Tranquil Groves...
Major Crime - Very good idea...helps get around Story Circle, Teferi's Moat, and prot-green creatures. Also rescues the critter of my choice from Perish. In they go.

Okay, here's the new decklist:

20x Forest
(one-drop)Llanowar Elves x4
(two-drop)River Boa x4
(two-drop)Kavu Titan x4
(two-drop)Elvish Archers x2
(three-drop)Horned Troll x3
(three-drop)Silt Crawler x4
(three-drop)Trained Armodon x4
(four-drop)Blastoderm x4

4x Giant Growth
4x Seal of Strength
2x Hurricane

SB:
Tranquil Grove x4 (Teferi's Moat, Story Circle, Fires, etc.)
Tranquility x4 (Gotta come out!)
Spidersilk Armor x3 (Dragons, Blazing Specter)
Kavu Chameleon x2 (Counter decks)
Distorting Lens x2 (Perish, color-dependent stuff)

Main-deck is looking strong, but my sideboard still needs work. What should go in for Tranquility?

Oh, BTW, when I did play this deck, this actually happened:
He's playing Fires. I'm playing this.
He goes first.
HIM: Forest, Birds, Go.
ME: Forest, Go.
HIM: Tap out, Birds, Birds, Go.
ME: Forest, Hurricane for 1.

That's three Birds on two mana, folks. Never underestimate the power of Hurricane. I've also won several games with it, just by playing this friendly little X spell for whatever life my opponent was at.


[Edited by Istanbul on 01-23-01 at 03:50 PM]
 
Z

Zadok001

Guest
Re: My Post

That's cause I'm dumb, can't read, and posted that after waking up. :)
 
L

Loafing Giant

Guest
Quirion Sentinal
1G, for a 2/1 that could bring a one-drop into play with it.

Rushwood Dyrad
1G, for a 2/1 with Forestwalk

Skyshroud Ridgeback
G, for a 2/3 that is good for 2 turns

Just some suggestions
 
T

Thallid Ice Cream Man

Guest
Is Horned Troll really worth it? Why not one of the 2/2 2-drops? Is regeneration worth an extra mana? If not go with Nomadic Elf or Grizzly Bears or something like that.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Horned Troll is 3 mana for a 2/2. It survives Shock, survives Pyre Zombie, survives Blastoderm, blocks a Burst counter and lives...regeneration is some good in T2, because there just isn't much that can deal with it. It can even handle Voracious Cobra (one of the few creatures that can).
 
T

The Rock

Guest
And you are all discussing a subject that is very close to The Rock`s heart, and that is the art - and it is an art - of laying the smack down! Technically the green beats deck has a great history of laying the smack down, technically the great beats deck gets the best creatures and the best spells, technically the green beats deck should be whippin` butt and takin` names.

But it isn`t.

Because for all that the green beats deck has a huge advantage, for all that the green beats deck has speed, for all that the green beats deck has power - for all that ... the green beats deck is just plain dumb. And if a deck is dumb, it`s just going to find itself meeting somebody who is just a little bit smarter, like The Rock, and when that happens the green beats deck is technically going to get it`s candybutt whipped.

But The Rock isn`t willing to give up on the green beats deck just yet because, you see, the green beats deck has potential if it would just stop being such a big dumbbutt pile of monkey crap.

The Rock says that the green beats deck needs to learn some tricks, it needs to pick up some moves it can throw to put the opponent onto the back foot, it needs to be able to come out snarling like the Brahma Bull himself but be ready to duck and cover from a Wrath Of God. It also needs to be ready for such cards as Blinding Angel, Story Circle, Saproling Burst. It needs to be able to overpower the defensive decks, and outhink the other fast decks.
In short, it needs to look like this:

4 Llanowar Elf
4 River Boa
4 Elvish Archer
4 Quirion Sentinel
4 Nomadic Elf
4 Chimeric Idol
3 Elvish Champion

4 Wax/Wane
4 Giant Growth
3 Canopy Surge

4 Rishadan Port
4 Brushland
14 Forest


[Edited by Spiderman on 01-25-01 at 10:59 AM]
 
R

Ransac

CPA Trash Man
*Ransac walks up down the top and stares at The Rock in the ring.*

The Rock. Your role. Know it. Oh Yeah. Your mouth. Shut it. Ran Sac says this. Ran Sac says that it doesn't matter what you think. Ran Sac wipes a monkey's butt with what you THINK!! You think that you can come into Ran Sac's ring and tell Green Mages that their decks need Canopy Surge? They would be better off with Story Circles themselves! Ran Sac says that you say that you have a plan. Well, Ran Sac has a plan too. It involves taking his size 13 boot, turning it sideways, and shoving it straight up your CANDY BUTT!!!!! All you do is whine and whine and whine and whine until Ran SSac has had enough. Time for a little one on one.


IF YOU SMELLLLLLLLLLLLLLL WHAT RAN SAC......IS....COOKIN'?



*Ransac gives the insane eyebrow.*





Ransac, cpa trash man



[Edited by Ransac on 01-25-01 at 07:59 PM]
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Amusing as it might sound, let's save the gratuitous use of the three-letter butt (and all ASCII variations) to the Battle Arena.

The Rock: Once might have been okay and it keeps in line your "attitude", but three was probably too much and unnecessary. Sorry.
 
S

Sammy Dead-O

Guest
I don't necessarily think of the Stampede Drivers as just utility. They're a way to give the 'Derm a way around its most popular method of getting beat--chump blocking and letting it fade away. Plus, with a few more one-drops, you'll have a better chance of attacking from turn 2 onward.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Originally posted by The Rock

The Rock says that the green beats deck needs to learn some tricks, it needs to pick up some moves it can throw to put the opponent onto the back foot, it needs to be able to come out snarling like the Brahma Bull himself but be ready to duck and cover from a Wrath Of God. It also needs to be ready for such cards as Blinding Angel, Story Circle, Saproling Burst. It needs to be able to overpower the defensive decks, and outhink the other fast decks.
In short, it needs to look like this:

[Edited by Spiderman on 01-25-01 at 10:59 AM]
Click to expand...
[decklist and garbage snipped]

Wrath of God - I out-swarm you. I have a buttload of creatures, and I'll play around an opponent that Wraths.
Blinding Angel - Hurricane for 4. Spidersilk Armor. Next...
Story Circle - Distorting Lens. Kavu Chameleon. Swarm.
Saproling Burst - Tranquil Grove. Regenerating blockers.

So, remind me again why my decklist is bad?
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Because it is.
If you are winning with it then your opponents are pretty damn bad.

Your deck won`t outswarm U/W control It`s FAR too slow. The Rock`s build of Sentinels, Champions, and Idols is much faster, and has natural protection from Wrath Of God.

They will counter the Hurricane. They will probably counter the Canopy Surge, but at least Canopy Surge costs less mana to cast.

Kavu Chameleon is the first serious card you`ve mentioned all day. They DO have countermagic, you know.

Tranquil Grove WILL stop Burst, once you`ve established board parity, but I`m not sure that you will be able to do that, and certainly they all have 4 Wax/Wane to kill the Grove. So think again.


Personally I really like The Rock`s build, I ran into a similar deck on Apprentice recently and had my eyes opened to the boost that the Elf beatdown deck gives green beats. This version adds in Wax/Wane to solve the main problem that I was giving him - CoPs and Moats. And the Canopy Surges are a good add, probably slighter better than Hurricane.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Gizmo...Gizmo, Gizmo, Gizmo.

I like(d) you. But you're wrong.

My opponents, first of all, go to Pro Tours. REALLY bad, as you can see.

My deck WILL outswarm U/W control because it can deal 20 by turn 4/5, rather easily. And DON'T say Wrath. Just don't. Because I KNOW you will. Not every U/W control deck casts Wrath on turn 4, not without cheating. You can't just get a given card by turn 4, guaranteed. And even if it does, I reiterate: I WILL PLAY AROUND AN OPPONENT THAT PLAYS WRATHS. Why you're selectively ignoring every good point I make, I have no idea.

Counter the Hurricane? Counter Fires. Counter Blastoderm. Counter every Rebel. Counter counter counter. Guess what? Sometimes, you don't HAVE counters. And if you DO manage to come up with a counter, that means you're *not* stopping my swarm.

Kavu Chameleon is the first SERIOUS card? Seriously, dude, UP YOURS. No sh!t. This entire deck is serious, and I'll bring it against any copycat netdeck you want to bring to the table.

I have more creatures than Fires. And I can get them into play pretty quickly, after the most recent revision. Of course, you've conveniently 'forgotten' my 8 regenerating creatures, should Burst happen to get past Grove.
 
G

Gizmo

Guest
Okay, no problem.
I don`t like your build, and experience suggests that most of the time I am right about that sort of thing.
But not always, so I`ll concede the point.

No hard feelings.
 
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