Would you play these?

M

Mikeymike

Guest
Someone might need to help me out with the exact wording.

Here are some cantrips

Manipulation
2U
Instant
Tap or Untap target artifact, creature or land. Draw a card.

Consent
1UU
Instant
Counter target non-creature spell. Draw a card.
(better than exclude, hence the double blue)

Andrenaline Rush
1GG
Instant
Target creature gains trample and gets +2/+2 until the end of turn. Draw a card.

Lethargy
2B
Sorcery
Target player reveals their hand. Choose a non-creature card. That player discards that card. Draw a card.
(no land restriction b/c its a later cast and it makes the cantrip slightly more attractive)

Rash Decision
1WU
Instant
Target player cannot play spells this turn. Draw a card.

And some other stuff

Sylvan Imperial Guard
2GW
Creature - Soldier
5/1 (5/2?)
Trample, First Strike
(I really like this guy)

Bend the Rules
4GU
Enchantment
You may play sorceries and artifacts as instants.
(I've been waiting for a card like this for awhile - this is a powerful ability so the CC might need adjusting)

Plasma Flare
RRR
Sorcery
Deal 5 damage divided however you choose among any number of creatures or players.

Harbinger of Destruction
3BW
Creature - Minion
4/4
Harbinger of Destruction doesn't tap to attack
Threshold: Harbinger of Destruction gains "During your upkeep sacrifice a land. {2: TAP} Destroy target permanent. It can't be regenerated"

Suspended Animation
5
Artifact
All players skip their draw phase. During your upkeep you lose 2 life.

Kamikaze
BR
Instant
As an additional cost of Kamikaze Sacrifice a creature. That creature deals X damage to target creature or player where X equals the sacrificed creature's Converted Mana Cost.
(The creature deals the damage, not the spell)

Time Jump
1UU
Sorcery
Take an additional turn after this one unless any opponent pays 2 mana.

Nature's Aggression
2GG
Instant
Nature's Aggression may only be play during your combat phase after you declare attackers. Draw a card for each creature you control that attacks.

Genocide
BBB
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures, they can't be regenerated. Lose X life where X is equal to the amount of creatures put into the graveyard by Genocide this turn.

Vitality
3G
Instant
Target attacking creature gains trample and gets +X/+X where X is equal to the number of lands you control.

Risky Maneuver
3U
Instant
Your opponent names a card. Reveal the top 5 cards of your library. Any copies of the named card are put at the bottom of your library. The remaining cards go into your hand.
EDIT: FIXED CASTING COST OF THIS

----
Thoughts?
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Manipulation should cost 1U.

Sylvan Imperial guard should be a 3/2. MAYBE a 4/2. Ball Lightning is 3 for a 6/1 with trample because it DOESN'T have first strike AND it dies whether in combat or otherwise. 4 for a 5/2 with trample and first strike with no drawback doesn't seem right.

Bend the Rules is a problem card. Instant-speed discard and land destruction doesn't exist for a *reason*.

Harbringer of Destruction should be a 3/4, and his Threshhold ability should cost BW and tap.

Time Jump should cost 2UU. Extra turns should be COSTLY.

Genocide is too strong. Make X the combined power of the creatures killed in that way.

Risky Maneuver is broken eight ways to Tuesday. No. HELL no. On average, this is '2U, draw 3 or 4 cards'. If your opponent guesses badly, you draw 5 cards for 2U. Move over, Ancestral Recall!
[EDIT: Okay, '3U: Draw 3-5 cards'. The answer is still GOOD LORD.]
 
M

Mikeymike

Guest
Manipulation - At 1U it almost seems to powerful, but compared to what's in standard right now I doubt it could really abuse anything in particular. Even in type 1 or extended its not powerful enough to see use.

Sylvan Imperial Guard - How about a 4/1? As a 3/2 he isn't aggressive enough to take full advantage of his abilities and justify playing him instead of something else. As a 4/1 he's still a freaking house with a good P to CC, yet is still very vulnerable.

Bend the Rules - I know it could be a problem card, hence the request to fix its CC. However, I still love the idea and want to fix the idea.
Maybe it should have a stipulation of something like "Bend the Rules may only be cast to be brought into play. Otherwise sacrifice Bend the Rules."
This way it can't be tricked out with a Rector, Replenish, Show and Tell, etc.

Harbringer of Destruction - 3/4 is fair. I'm not sure about the BW activation though, as he starts eating lands it would get difficult to pay for his ability at all. But with no colored activation cost he is too splashable. Hmmmm, I'm torn, maybe {3 TAP}.
He should definitely be a Legend also.

Time Jump is a tricky one. I was trying to compare this to Time Warp between the relationship bet. Deflection and Divert. But then again at 1UU the first thing I'd do is run this in a G/U deck with Birds of Paradise and this is a common turn 2 cast. Fixing to 2UU with 'unless opponent pays 3'.

Genocide - Eh, I don't know if its too strong, but the casting cost does need to be fixed. I always Wrath of God was more a black card than a white card (like Armageddon should be red) yet this is still an easy Dark Ritual cast. How about. 1BBB or RBB instead?

Risky Maneuver - Yeah, this thing is broken, at the worst you still draw 3 cards for 4 mana at instant speed. My original thinking was that you won't be able to get the card to save your oink in a pinch so its a big drawback.
Still want to keep in XU though to make it splashable. Will fix this too.

Thanks for the reply, BTW what did you think of the other cards?
 
F

FoundationOfRancor

Guest
Not sure about anything else right now, but Manipulate is the same thing as Twiddle from Tempest. And Twiddle was cc'ed at 2U. I always thought that was fair.
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Didn't we have a talk about the cost of cantrips sometime in the forum earlier? I think in the history of cards, most cantrips are around 3 cc, one color and 2 colorless minimum. So I think the original cc is fair.
 
M

Mikeymike

Guest
Twiddle is the Original at a casting cost of 'U', I never realized they made its cantrip brother. Go figure.

Anyone know the name of that card? If I had known I'd have grabbed it awhile ago.

Just found it: Twitch. And its a common (slaps hand to forehead really hard). Don't mind Captain Moron over here.
 
F

FoundationOfRancor

Guest
Consent
It's cost is pretty good I think.

Andrenaline Rush
This can cost 2G, and can probablly give +3+3.

Lethargy
This seems really good, perhaps a tad overpowered. I would consider cc'ing it at 1BB.

Rash Decision
When I look at it, it seems overpowered....but it's really not.

Sylvan Imperial Guard
Agree with Ist, but I think Ball Lightning was RRR was more because it destroyed itself than not having first strike.

Bend the Rules
This is powerful, but it is a 6 mana enchantment...it's fine.

Risky Manouver
3UU.
Plasma Flare
...no. Ever.

Harbinger of Destruction
Agree with Ist, BW activation cost.

Suspended Animation
I like it, but it can be cc;ed at 4 I think.

Kamikaze
I compare to Fling, and it looks fine.

Time Jump
Again, Ist is correct, 2UU. But you might be able to get away with it being an Instant.

Nature's Aggression
It seems to good...maybe 2GGG to compete with Overrun?

Genocide
I disagree with Istanbul here, and I defintly disagree with his suggestion. When I compare it to Forced March, it doesent seem too bad...I think 2 life should be lost though.

Vitality
2GG, it can be alot better than Oaks later in game.

Risky Manuever
5U. Compare to Oppurtunity.
 
M

Mikeymike

Guest
Fixed versions, direct comparisons, and reasons why I did or didn't make changes:

Consent
Stays as is, its balanced.

Andrenaline Rush
Stays as is.
2G is way too splashable, +3/+3 would make it way to powerful for 3 mana. Compared to Sylvan Might and Armadillo Cloak, its balanced.

Lethargy
1BB
Sorcery
Target player reveals their hand. Choose a non-creature card. That player discards that card. Draw a card.
CC makes mores sense now, prevents splashing which would be too strong.

Sylvan Imperial Guard
2GW
Creature - Soldier
4/2
Trample, First Strike
You guys keep comparing him to Ball Lightning, but you shouldn't be. Yes BL had 6 power for 3 mana, but he killed himself b/c he had haste, and he is suicide mono-red vs. the creature efficiency of G and W.
- You should compare this guy to Yavimaya Ants instead.
YA vs. SIG
Trample, Haste vs Trample, First Strike
CU: GG vs He's multi-colored
Uncommon vs Rare
5/1 for 4 vs 4/2 for 4
This comparison seems a little more fair, and I think it justifies his P/T. I'm still leaning to a 5/1, but I'll make the consession.


Bend the Rules
3GU
Enchantment
Sorceries and artifacts may played as instants.
I changed the wording so it affects all players, this balances so much that I knocked 1 off the CC. Your opponent can use this before you, making you the first recipient of its brunt. I'd be scared to play this card but it'd sure be fun to try.

Plasma Flare
RRR
Sorcery
Deal 4 damage divided however you choose among any number of creatures or players.
5 damage for 3 mana is way too much, but at 4 damage this looks balanced
Compare it Arc Lightning, Fire and Flameshot and it seems to work.


Harbinger of Destruction
3BW
Creature - Minion Legend
4/4
Harbinger of Destruction doesn't tap to attack
Threshold: Harbinger of Destruction gains "During your upkeep sacrifice a land. {BW: TAP} Destroy target permanent. It can't be regenerated"
Compare to Tahngarth

Suspended Animation
5
Artifact
As long as Suspended Animation is untapped, all players skip their draw phase. During your upkeep you lose 2 life.
At 4 mana I believe its too abusable by too many different types of aggro decks. At 5 mana it seems slightly high, hence the tapped reference I added to give it more synergy options

Kamikaze
1BR
Instant
As an additional cost of Kamikaze Sacrifice a creature. Kamikaze deals X damage to target creature and/or player where X equals the sacrificed creature's Converted Mana Cost.
Now its really interesting and dangerous. I wanted to make this directly superior to Fling, and with the extra B it definitely is. Yes you can hit 2 targets, but you are still giving up 2 resources for the card. Compare this to both Fling and Terminate. At 2BR or BRR its too mana intensive, at its current CC it attrative to try to build a deck around

Time Jump
2UU
Sorcery
Take an additional turn after this one unless any opponent pays 3 mana.
Too fast at 3 mana, but still an interesting alternative to Time Warp

Nature's Aggression
1GGG
Instant
Nature's Aggression may only be play during your combat phase after you declare attackers. Draw a card for each creature you control that attacks.
At 2GGG or 3GG its I feel its too inferior to Collective Unconsciousness, but at 1GGG it sticks it strictly to a mono-green aggro deck.

Genocide
1BBB
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures, they can't be regenerated. Lose X life where X is equal to the amount of creatures put into the graveyard by Genocide this turn.
Black gets the decent creature sweeper it deserves, not as good as a WoG yet its not as nutty as Hellfire, solid card.

Vitality
2GG
Instant
Target attacking creature gains trample and gets +X/+X where X is equal to the number of lands you control.
Had to up the CC a little b/c this card is too hardcore when compared to Might of Oaks

Risky Manuever
Forget it, its too powerful and shouldn't even be entertained
 
S

shadow_acid

Guest
Why don't you make Risky Maneuver this:

XX2U
Target opponent names a card. Reveal X cards from your library. Remove all named cards from the game and put the rest into your hand.
 
R

Rooser

Guest
Okay, my five cents:

Manipulation: At 1U it's just a copy of Ice from Fire/Ice. Also it's almost an exact copy of Enervate from Ice Age. At 2U it's just plain weaker than existing cards that weren't terribly strong to begin with. How about you just scrap it and come up with a better cantrip?

Consent: It's fine the way it is.

Adrenaline Rush: It's also fine, but it's not strong enough for constructed play.

Lethargy: You got it. After reading the oringial my first response was to make the cost 1BB. Well, you did just that.

Sylvan Guard Thingy: Dude, don't listen to these whiners. I think you got it right the first time with 5/1. It's hella strong, but it's not too strong. At 4/2 he's just candy-oink.

Bend the rules: Personally, I would make this into two different cards, and I would take the Winding Canyons approach - a land with an activayed ability that lets you do it until end of turn. A blue/green enchantment that does this is just too funky I think, and it's not worth playing because you're investing so much in a card that doesn't do anything but enable your other cards. Make it a land, or a creature, and you got something worthwhile.

Plasma Flare - Yeah, 5 damage was definitely too much. However, at 4, it's too similar to Violent Eruption. You might want to scrap this one.

Harbinger: I thought the original was fine, but I do agree that WB activation would feel more appropriate, and 3/4 does do make more sense since he don't tap to attack. I'd bump him up to 4/5 if you took away the not tapping to attack.

Suspended Animation: NO. Take out the "if this be untapped, break all symmetry" clause now. You will NOT create a draw step lock down. It's just not cool.

Kamikaze: I got the tweak you're looking for. Make it so that you can divide the damage however you want among any number of targets. How's that for fun?

Time Jump: No, I think it needs to cost only 3 for it to be more interesting than Time Warp. I see your concern over playing it on turn two, but doing that really would be much worse than a turn 2 Temporal Spring or a turn two Fallow Earth. That said, I think the balancing solution lies in costing it at UUU.

The last three are fine.
 
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