Wizards gives blue back Counterspell...

Discussion in 'General CPA Stuff' started by orgg, Aug 29, 2004.

  1. orgg Administrator

    ...at effectivly three mana.

    From MTGnews:

    Hinder (Uncommon) (1)UU
    Instant(duh!)
    Counter target spell. Put it either on Top or Bottom of its owner's library.


    Thus, Countersepell for one additional mana(or actually, Dismiss and Memory Lapse combined... I kinda like it).
  2. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside...



    Oh wait... I need a bucket... I'm going to vomit!








    Anyhoo... I think they're feeling the pressure or something, people need a nice little staple counterspell for us to use, not just that old power sink copy crap.
  3. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    Nice to see blue getting a toy back. Notice how they still won't give them Counterspell back? They have basically admitted that UU is too much, for the time being, for a hard counter. ;) :D YAY!
  4. train The Wildcard!!!...

    there is no "for the time being"... and this is an outrage...

    now I feel a spontaneous moment coming on SeFRo!!!:mad:
  5. Ephraim New Member

    Train, I can't speak for everybody else, but I'm sick of your reactionary, irrational disdain toward blue. If you don't like it, don't play it, but leave the rest of us alone while we celebrate the return of playable countermagic. I've argued with you about this before and I gave up when you started spouting irrational nonsense to back up your arguments. However, if you think that blue has not been crippled in the past two blocks, then you clearly don't understand 1) How powerful blue used to be, 2) How important a role blue can play in a metagame, and 3) the actual power of recent blue cards. So please, do us all a favour and quit your friggin' whining.
  6. Nightstalkers Creature — Nightstalker

    Meh, Blue is good for manipulating other colors with... "Oooh, lookie, I can turn my stupid Karma to target your plains!"


    Gotta love it. :D


    But the counter stuff gets on peoples nerves. Why the bloody heck do they allow you to have more than a certain number of counter type spells is beyond me, its a bit debilitating if you just run counter, and not to mention its a darn pain in the butt too.
  7. Chaos Turtle Demiurgic CPA Member, Admin Assistant

    I think this may be the perfect counterspell. It's costed fairly, and has versatility. Just want to buy a turn? It's a Memory Lapse. Want to get rid of a naughty card for a while? Bury that sucker where only a tutor can find it.

    And honestly, I can see why people might get annoyed by playing someone who just wants to counter everything, but the fact that you're going to win (unless you really suck) should help you feel a bit better about the situation.

    I mean, we're not talking about Forbid here; one can't counter everything. (Unless of course you're playing with awesome multi-card recursion in a very slow format, like the 5-color Gaea's Blessing control deck I played wayyy back in the day. One chick actually told me "You can't counter everything." I told her, "Watch me.")
  8. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    ...or, the Tempest-era world championship deck played by none other than Randy Bull-Head. The deck was almost all counterspells, and some card draw to get more counterspells. Only one victory condition in the entire deck, and he made it pretty dang far in that tourney.
  9. Istanbul Sucker MCs call me sire.

    That would be Counter-Phoenix.

    Yeah, Shard Phoenix.

    Yeah, same one that just got voted into 9E.

    Yay.
  10. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Ephraim: By now, ya gotta realize that most of train's comments about blue is tongue-in-cheek. At least I think so... I mean, he may still dislike blue but offers blue card suggestions in the Decks forum... now it's more like he's "keeping up an image" or something.

    What I'm trying to say is, he's not that irrational or harsh about blue.
  11. train The Wildcard!!!...

    As spidey mentioned - I do help with ideas concerning blue - but that's because, and as I told you in our PMS - I like to see decks work for others... if that means bettering their deck lists through synergy - so be it...

    It's about the game as a whole - and enjoying playing it...

    First of all - we didn't argue...

    Second of all - you asked questions and I answered - whether you view my backing or reasoning as rational or not - is your opinion... reactionary - yes - that is the nature of a message board...

    third of all - I even told you I'd play blue locally for a day or two just to re-emphasize just how much more broken it is now, than previously...

    fourth of all - explain how blue has been "crippled" in the last two blocks... If it's been in the world champion's deck the last couple of years - "I'm just not getting it's disability..."

    fifth of all - I previously owned a blue power nine card, multiple drains, forces, etc... and know how powerful it used to be - and understand it is more powerful now...

    sixth of all - metagame, recent blue cards power level, and blue - the "fourth of all" talks about this.
  12. EricBess Active Member

    You know what the problem with blue is? It doesn't follow the rules that R&D uses to "create".

    Read Rosewater's article today (would include link, but it's not come up).

    To paraphrase the point in question, he asks the question, "what do people least like about playing dragons", then answers, "having the dragon nullified by a 2-casting cost spell" and the "fix" is to give the dragons these insane abilities when they are put into the graveyard.

    Guess what??? Blue doesn't put things into the graveyard when it nullifies them....it puts them back in your hand, or you library, or...doesn't let them hit play in the first place....

    Make them uncounterable on top of everything else and I think you will have addressed blue, but in the meantime, blue once again sneaks by the R&D team for this cycle.
  13. train The Wildcard!!!...

    I'll give you great credit for that one EB...

    It's just another point to add to my list...:cool:

    (And I read the article earlier when Rosey said that - just didn't catch up on it...:rolleyes: )
  14. Killer Joe Active Member

    that I have a signed Counterspell by train?

    I'm never going to trade it or sell because it's invaluable (is that a word?).

    :D :D :D :D :p
  15. Mr_Pestilence Wumpus

    Well, I hate Blue, and anything that resembles a decent Blue spell makes me very angry.

    I think Blue players should have a hobnailed boot placed across their throat and made to witness the Blue cards in their collection individually set ablaze and flung into a wood chipper, then washed with 3-day old pigs blood into the nearest sewer. Other than that, I got nuthin' but love for'em.

    Seriously, the problem w/ Blue (and all control decks) is that they make it difficult to finish tournament rounds in time. For casual play, they just aren't fun.

    If Magic is a game, that implies interaction, not just one player saying "NO!" turn after turn.
  16. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Maybe that's supposed to be the dragon's one weakness... blue :)

    Or more "remove from game" stuff will be in COK.

    Just as devil's advocate to Mr P., because while he has a valid complaint, I also dislike decks that try to run roughshod over mine and win in 5-6 turns before the game gets going. Yeah, sure you beat the tourney time limits but I'd rather have a good game going. So what are you gonna do?

    ;)
  17. Notepad Seffy Sefro

    Actually I was thinking of his mono-blue deck. Only ways to win were a sole Rainbow Efreet (or whichever one it was that could phase itself out for blue mana) and a Stalking Stones or two. I bought this deck gold-bordered and it plays very easily. You'd be surprised how evil a blue deck can be when its almost all counterspells. You'd think it would eventually putter out, but nah. It is hella slow, yes, but it works.

    Which disgusts me...:mad:
  18. train The Wildcard!!!...

    I honestly see this point as valid, and my answer to it is "prepare"... while keeping your style and concept...

    every deck build should be able to go all three stages in the magic game - early, mid, and Loooooongg..... really loooooonngggg...

    Decks can still be built solidly and it allows your deck to face, most other decks out there, without much change...

    (That's basically wha tI do with the Wildcard deck...)

    :cool:
  19. train The Wildcard!!!...

    ...*looks around*

    ...*tries to think of something witty*

    I give up!... I signed it okay!... It's not a crime... just a shameful moment in my time... :p

    (and i didn't mind getting rid of the counterspell...)

    :cool:
  20. Mikeymike Captain Hiatus

    I think this is a fair and balanced counterspell, and I am not a counterspell fan in the least bit. It is strictly inferior to the original in two ways: first is that it is 3CC, second is that it does not remove the target from the deck (which can be turned into advantage, but 90% of the time it will be a disadvantage).

    Tangential, in the past 2 blocks blue's power/semi-brokeness has not been due to counter, it has been a two-fold problem tied into:

    1) Unbalanced mechanics. Of the newest mechanics that they've introduced to the game, they played right into blue strengths and/or they gave blue the best cards for that mechanic. Exmaples
    * Affinity: Thoughtcast, Broodstar, Qumulox, Hoverguard
    * Madness: Great pitch engines (Carefull study, Merfolk Looter, Aquamoeba), and Wonder...
    * Storm: Mind's Desire
    * Artifact Synergy (besides Affinity): Artificer's Intuition (this card WILL become a problem), Trinket Mage, Fabricate, March of the Machines, Thirst for Knowledge (which I adore BTW)

    2) It will always have the best card-draw. The straight card advantage will always ensure that blue is played in constructed. That is the real problem, but I guarantee the card draw will never go away.

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