White Deck vs. Elves

[Crackdown]

I’m afraid this white deck needs some help. It’s getting annihilated by an elf deck and it’s embarrassing to be overrun by 11 elves each being 33/33 with trample.

4 Lantern Kami
1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Leonin Skyhunter
4 Silver Knights
4 Blinding Angels
1 Samurai of the Pale Curtain
2 Mother of Runes (only have two)
4 Benevolent Bodyguard

1 Wrath of God (only have one)
1 Catastrophe
3 Parallax Wave
2 Shield of Duty and Reason (because I only have two MoR)
3 Glorious Anthem
2 Topple

24 Plains

I have a hunch I'm running too many lands and not enough creatures or spells. I don't have any Mox Chromes or Whipcorders, but I have enough Master Decoy/Benalish Trapper cards. Most of the cards I have come from Tempest (lots of Soltari), a ton of Urza and Mercadian blocks with a few Invasion/Prophecy and some more recent stuff.

Would Mageta, the Lion be a good card to use?

 

[Spiderman]

I'd say that since you only have one Wrath, Mageta would be a good choice.

Is it only certain elves that are giving the rest bonuses? Maybe you can take them out... I'd suggest Swords to Plowshares but it doesn't seem you have any...

Maybe the white Medallion (since you mentioned Tempest) to lower the cost of your spells... if not some sort of mana producer like Marble Diamond or whatever may be in later sets.

 

[Crackdown]

The culprits in the elf deck are:

Gaea's Cradle
Priest of Titania
Brawn
Vitalizing Wind
Tribal Unity
Wellwisher (annoying life gain)

For flying defense, the deck uses Spidersilk Armor. I was thinking of Monk Realist to remove those, but since my theme is to give the BA pro-green, is that a waste of four slots?

I could run 3 Wave of Reckoning, but that puts Brawn in the graveyard where the elves receive trample. You're right on with StP, I don't have any. Guess I'll have to trade my Urza rares for some of those and some Wraths (and other cards). . . .

[I was holding out on the Wraths, hoping that the Kirtar's Wrath would work.]

Spidey, what do you think about using 24 lands. Most of the White Weenie decks I've seen listed use 18-20 lands. I seem to have rotten luck on land draws in general, but once in awhile that's all I'm drawing. Should I use the Soltari Visionary in place of the Silver Knights?

 

[Spiderman]

I think you can go down to at least 22. If the Cradle is a problem, I'd also suggest Wasteland (as that's Tempest).

Hmm, the only way to get rid of Brawn is to start running artifacts (or black ) Good 'ol Tormod's Crypt or there's a Tempest one Phyrexian Furnace (I think it's Tempest).

If you want to be annoying, you can try running Worship (although he'll probably start running enchantment removal if he isn't already).

I'm not sure if there's white spells that prevent a creature's abilities being used offhand ala Pacifism (which is used for attacking)... if there are, maybe them too.

Basically I just see you need some more removal type stuff to get rid of the more troublesome components of the elf deck.

 

[Mikeymike]

Check out Honor the Fallen to help deal with Brawn. You should also be able to gain loads of life when you cast it, since neither of you seen to run any recursion and play weenie decks.

Arrest could also be helpful.

Lightning Greaves can surprise him with your Blinding Angel, or if Spidersilk Armor is an issue Whispersilk Cloak can help you get around it, and create a bit of a soft lock with the Angel.

Cards you can improve upon: Shield of Duty and Reason and Topple. I'm not nuts about Isamaru or the Bodyguards. Samurai of the Pale Curtain is excellent, get more.

I also don't love Parallax Wave. It is an excellent card, but all it really does is slow him down. I just don't think it is right for this particular deck.

I agree with Spidey on the lands, try 22 to start.

Hope this helps.

 

[Crackdown]

Parallax Wave is a delay mechanism, yes. But he also has cards which gain +1/+1 for every green spell played. (Topple is designed to remove this card or Brawn from the game as I rarely have something more than 3 power out at the time.)

I'm not quite certain what happens when the cards are returned. Do the tokens return as well?

Hmm ... Honor the Fallen and Serra Avatar?

 

[Mikeymike]

Originally posted by Crackdown
Parallax Wave is a delay mechanism, yes. But he also has cards which gain +1/+1 for every green spell played. (Topple is designed to remove this card or Brawn from the game as I rarely have something more than 3 power out at the time.)

I'm not quite certain what happens when the cards are returned. Do the tokens return as well?

Hmm ... Honor the Fallen and Serra Avatar?

No the tokens do not return. Parallax Wave removes them from the game, and the creatures have no memory that they were once in play.

I understand what you are saying about Parallax Wave, I just think a more permanent solution is important. The downside of Topple is that you can't kill any Priests/Wellwishers with them. Arrest is nice because it can shut down any creature he has, especially if he has no enchantment destruction.

Serra Avatar I wouldn't recomment b/c you currently have no way to give her evasion. She's either a 20/20 blocker, or just waiting to be chumped. Do you have any Exalted Angels, Radiant Archangels, or even Serra Angels? I'd go with that beef first.

Windborn Muse could be helpful as well, since his deck wants to swarm.

 

[Reverend Love]

Holy Day when he tries to alpha strike you.

 

[TheCasualOblivion]

Or you could go straight cheese and play CoP: Green.

 

[Crackdown]

Ok, here's the newer version. I'll test it soon:

Lands

22 Plains

Creatures

2 Mother of Runes
4 Lantern Kami
4 Leonin Skyhunter
3 Soltari Visionary
2 Voice of Duty
1 Radiant Archangel
1 Exalted Angel (I'm scraping here)
4 Blinding Angel

Spells

4 Holy Day
3 Glorious Anthem
2 Wrath of God
2 Shield of Duty and Reason
1 Crusade
4 Arrest
1 Catastrophe

Wish me luck.

[Number one son lost three times with his elf deck to an onslaught of Soltari Visionaries. I substituted Juggernauts for them at his insistence ... and lost the next three. The Blinding Angels and Exalted Angel were not factors as his deck went off too quickly.

 

[Mikeymike]

Great call on the Visionaries, excellent creature.

I'd fit that Pale Curtain in still, it can't hurt you at all, can possibly hurt him and do much more.

 

[Crackdown]

Thanks for the help, guys. I'd like to make this into a more all-purpose deck before I tackle some other tribal idea. I still like the delay option/token removal of Parallax Wave and note that Mike Flores lists the card in his decklist for White Weenie (running 3 I think).

Another delaying mechanism could be False Prophet, keeping him from attacking at all until he's set the pieces in place, allowing me to conserve Holy Days. Something about that idea is a little too cute.

I rummaged through his elf deck some more and realized that he has a number of power, trample and +X/+X options:

Brawn
Tribal Forcemage
Tribal Unity
Blanchwood Armor
Caller of the Hunt
Titania's Chosen
Voice of the Woods
Heedless One

Such a nasty deck to go off turn five or six.

Play note: We've played quite a few more hands. I substituted the Frontline Strategist for the Juggernauts. When he drew well and I couldn't arrest his Priest of Titania, the elf strike occurred on turn five or six, usually before I could land a BA and attack with it. If I held a Wrath or Catastrophe though and used it, the BA proved too tough to handle, especially pro-green. So, the deck needs two more Wraths or Wrath substitutes. He's putting in the Whirlwinds, which magically reappeared in their binder.

All in all, great fun!

 

[Oversoul]

Deck Parfait (which is a white deck) is probably rather good against elves. I think that any white deck which uses the same tactics against elves can perform relatively well against them. Swords to Plowshares can take out the key creatures, and white has a number of defensive measures that are sufficiently powerful. An army of 33/33 elves coming at you will end the game quickly when it hits, unless you are prepared. Wrath of God (or Mageta in many casual decks, as Spidey pointed out) is good for this. White has several other options available (stuff like Moat, Story Circle, Island Sanctuary, Humility, etc). Elves really hate Balance. The important thing is to play a deck that can gain control before the elf deck (which can be a problem with the mana acceleration they have) and maintain that control.

 

[jorael]

All my old decks packed 4x serrated arrows. It is great creature removal for colors that don't have much on their own (white, green, blue).

I can imagine this will massacre hordes of elves. Damn, for nostalgic reason I'm going to put these in a deck again!


*runs of to build a deck with 4x serrated arrows & 4x treasure hunter*