When Threshold goes wrong.....

F

fuzzy510

Guest
Cautious General 1RW
Creature - Soldier
First Strike
When Cautious General comes into play, put the top ten cards of your library into your graveyard.
Threshold - Cautious General gets -4/-4 and loses First Strike.
6/6

Backstabber B
Creature - Horror
During your upkeep, put the top 6 cards of your library into your graveyard.
Backstabber cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
Cards in your graveyard cannot leave your graveyard.
If Backstabber becomes blocked, it gains trample until end of turn.
Threshold - You lose the game.
20/20
It seemed like a good idea at the time.

Raging Lunatic 2RR
Creature - Barbarian
Whenever Raging Lunatic deals damage to a creature or player, put the top card of your library into your graveyard.
During your upkeep, you may discard a card. If you do, Raging Lunatic deals 2 damage to target creature or player.
Threshold - Raging Lunatic gets -3/-2 and loses "During your upkeep, you may discard a card. If you do, Raging Lunatic deals 2 damage to target player."
3/3
He takes "Adrenaline Rush" to the maximum.

Disloyal Assassin 1BB
Creature - Barbarian Soldier Mercenary
Put the top 2 cards of your library into your graveyard: Destroy target creature other than Disloyal Assassin. It can't be regenerated. Disloyal Assassin cannot attack this turn. Use this ability only once per turn.
Threshold - Only your opponents may play Disloyal Assassin's ability.
1/2

Forced Denial U
Instant
Put the top three cards of your library into your graveyard. Counter target spell.
Threshold - Counter target spell with converted mana cost of 1 or less.

Immovable Golem 4
Artifact Creature - Golem
Immovable Golem doesn't untap during your untap step.
Whenever Immovable Golem blocks, tap it.
Discard a card from your hand: Untap Immovable Golem. The next time it could attack, it doesn't.
Threshold: Immovable Golem loses "Discard a card from your hand: Untap Immovable Golem. The next time it could attack, it doesn't."
4/5
What part of the word immovable don't you guys understand????

More to come later. Anyway.......whaddaya think?
 
R

Ransac

CPA Trash Man
Backstabber, eh? The card could very well be broken.

Scenario-You go first, you play backstabber. You opponent draws, lays a land, curses, and concedes.


Make him a 10/10, or a 12/12 at most so people have a chance to deal with him.

Ransac, cpa trash man
 
F

fuzzy510

Guest
If you do that, then there has to be a lot of work done to get Backstabber out. If you don't wear down your opponent beforehand, you attack with Backstabber. Your opponent laughs, as you have lost the game, while he sits at 8 or 10. The whole point of Backstabber is to be a quick, life or death gamble.

I'm considering making Backstabber read "Backstabber cannot attack unless your opponent controls a creature." This would make it a little less broken. I'd also consider upping the CC, but it can still go out first turn if it had a CC of three or less (Ritual). Four seems too high to me.
 
F

FoundationOfRancor

Guest
Heres my take on what Backstaber should be:

Backstabber
1BB
Creature - non-zombie
During your upkeep, put the top 6 cards in your library into your graveyard.
Threshold - Backstabber gains "At the end of your upkeep, you lose the game"
10/10

IMHO, cards should be kept as simple as possible. Here, theres lots of room for abuse, but it still is hard; Backstabber doesent even have trample.
 
Z

Zero T Katama

Guest
Fuzzy, I don't know whether this is obvious to you but if you did Ritual for Backstabber, you'd already have lost the game.
 
F

fuzzy510

Guest
No, that didn't occur to me at all. Well then.

I'd like somebody to tell me why it can't be 20/20. The whole point is that it ends the game in quickly after you play it, and then the whole game becomes very simple. If your opponent gets a creature, it's likely over for you. Otherwise, it's over for him. (Or, to be politically correct, her.)

I don't know if it crossed anyone's mind, but it truly is pointless to make it untargetable by spells, since once it resolves, you lose the game. But all I have to do is to find some way to get the damage through by using an ability, and my opponent is screwed anyway.

However, without the untargetability of the graveyard, it would be easy for me to keep Backstabber in play for a while. Assuming that Backstabber is 1BB, here's an extremely unlikely example:

Turn 1: Swamp, Thran Foundry.
Turn 2: Swamp, 2 more Thran Foundrys.
Turn 3: Swamp, Backstabber.
Turn 4: Top 6 in graveyard, Backstabber attacks, use 1 Thran Foundry.
Turn 5: Top 6 in graveyard, Backstabber attacks, use another Thran Foundry.
Turn 6: Top 6 in graveyard, Backstabber attacks, use last Thran Foundry.
Turn 7: Top 6 in graveyard, Backstabber attacks.

That's at least 40 potential damage. Ouch. Now, if you make the graveyard untargetable:

Turn 1: Swamp, Thran Foundry.
Turn 2: Swamp, 2 more Thran Foundrys.
Turn 3: Swamp, Backstabber.
Turn 4: Top 6 in graveyard, Backstabber attacks.
Turn 5: Top 6 in graveyard, Backstabber gains Threshold, game over.

That's 20 potential damage. Not so much of an ouch. Now true, the first situation isn't the most likely thing in the world, but still, it's possible. With making it 20/20, and making the graveyard untargetable, it tones it down significantly in my opinion.

Comments?
 
D

Dune Echo

Guest
Originally posted by fuzzy510
Disloyal Assassin 1BB
Creature - Barbarian Soldier Mercenary
Put the top 2 cards of your library into your graveyard: Destroy target creature other than Disloyal Assassin. It can't be regenerated. Disloyal Assassin cannot attack this turn. Use this ability only once per turn.
Threshold - Only your opponents may play Disloyal Assassin's ability.
1/2
Click to expand...
This should probably be written as:

Errant Assassin 1BB
Creature-Mercenary Assassin
Put the top two cards of your library in the graveyard, T: Destroy target creature other than Errant Assassin. It can't be regenerated.
Threshold-At the beginning of your upkeep, target opponent gains control of Errant Assassin.
1/2
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
What about the no attacking part? The once per turn part?

And the Threshold loses the spirit... technically you can get it back on the next turn and use it's ability, while the original has it so you can NEVER use it's ability.
 
D

Dune Echo

Guest
Originally posted by Spiderman
What about the no attacking part? The once per turn part?
Click to expand...
Well, tapping usually takes care of that. :)

Originally posted by Spiderman
And the Threshold loses the spirit... technically you can get it back on the next turn and use it's ability, while the original has it so you can NEVER use it's ability.
Click to expand...
True, but this also makes it more playable because no one really wishes to risk giving your opponent a permanent creature killer.
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Not if you have Eternal Warrior or Instill Energy of the like on him.

And I think this use of Threshold is like a penalty, like you get to use him until you have 7 cards and then your opponents. So you have to be sure not to get Threshold :)
 
D

Dune Echo

Guest
LOL, I guess we just have different views.

My thoughts are if you decide to incorporate a non-tapping or untap creature enchantment on the creature (or work in such devices as Serra's Blessing), you deserve to have the ability of the creature and attack. However, he's a 1/2, that's far from being exceptional on the battlefield.

On the very same token of discussion, playing Planar Void pretty much nullifies the card's Threshold draw-back and provides a powerful way to fight off recursion decks.

This is going to sound so egotistical, but I think that my take on the idea just makes it more playable, but keeps the drawback. Remember, Threshold is a state-based effect, so, if your opponent doesn't have it, she keeps the Assassin. Also, this is a "Hot Potato" type card which would be fun in multiplayer.

Fuzzy: Do you have any comments on this?
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Well, it IS fuzzy's card so he obviously should say what he envisioned for it. I was just trying to keep the original intent.

I was just viewing the "non-attack" clause as a "closing of the loophole" of using such enchantments.

But I do agree that the "hot potato" aspect would be fun.
 
D

Dune Echo

Guest
Originally posted by Spiderman
Well, it IS fuzzy's card so he obviously should say what he envisioned for it. I was just trying to keep the original intent.
Click to expand...
Where is he to comment on it?!

Originally posted by Spiderman
I was just viewing the "non-attack" clause as a "closing of the loophole" of using such enchantments.
Click to expand...
Intent, schmendt. :) I guess I was trying to follow the original intent while simplifying the card. I think that if you try to "close the loophole" you take way the fun of deckbuilding and trying to break the card.

Originally posted by Spiderman
But I do agree that the "hot potato" aspect would be fun.
Click to expand...
Thanks! :)
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Hey, it's still early in the day...

Hey, you can probably still "break it". Just with the non-attack clause on it :)
 
P

Pyro Monkey

Guest
as in, with the backstabber......kind of obvious but i guess it could have meant anything....
 
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