U/W Control for Type II

I

Istanbul

Guest
This deck is actually also posted in my article on the front page, but I figure that getting some input on it might be assisted by putting it here.

This is a Type II construct, possibly of tournament quality. Gizmo, your input would be appreciated, but everyone is welcome to put in their two cents.

MANA:
10x Island
8x Plains
2x Coastal Tower
2x Seashell Cameo

WHITE:
3x Wrath of God
2x Rout
2x Mageta, The Lion
2x Cho-Manno, Revolutionary
3x Story Circle
2x Devout Witness
3x Shackles

BLUE:
4x Counterspell
2x Thwart
3x Gush
2x Distorting Wake
3x Sliptide Serpent

GOLD:
3x Absorb
3x Samite Archer

SB:
3x Aura Fracture
3x Sheltering Prayers
3x Galina's Knight
1x Mercadian Lift
3x Mana Short
2x Disrupting Scepter

How does it win?

AGAINST SNUFF-O-DERM: Wrathlike spells with deal with problematic untargetable creatures, with countermagic making sure that they remain gone. Samite Archer helps your chances at survival, and Cho-Manno will survive repeated Blastoderm assaults (especially with countermagic protecting him from Snuffs and the like). Story Circle can be a win condition all on its own.
AGAINST RISING WATERS: Devout Witness will help in dealing with Rising Waters itself, assuming your opponent manages to push it through your countermagic. Should that occur, just Gush and Thwart your Islands back into play, and don't forget your Seashell Cameos. Sideboard in Aura Fracture to make sure your opponent realizes that no matter how mana-locked you are, you can always pop his Waters.
AGAINST LAND DESTRUCTION: Don't be afraid to Gush and Thwart; bounce lands you've already tapped to make them perform double duty in countering your opponent's land destruction. Try to get your Cameos into play early, and remember that this deck has a goodly amount of land. Sideboard in Galina's Knight for a fast pro-red creature, and Sheltering Prayers to make your opponent's day a living hell. A well-placed Mana Short during your opponent's upkeep can keep him quiet for a turn, too.
AGAINST DRAW-GO: This deck will be packing a lot of countermagic, so don't even think about trying to out-counter it on things that don't matter. Try to play aggressively, forcing your opponent to use counters on Mageta, Cho-Manno, and your Archers. When he throws down a kill mechanism, that's when *your* counters come into play. And remember, you do have board-wipers in your deck, so don't concede if something ugly pushes its way through. Sideboard in Mercadian Lift to make your creatures uncounterable, Mana Short for a must-counter spell, and Disrupting Scepter to get rid of those pesky cards your opponent draws.

QUESTIONS:
Q: Why Seashell Cameo?
A: Two reasons. One, it's an artifact, so Rising Waters doesn't touch it, and Land Destruction has to Pillage it. Two, it's mana acceleration, albeit not at Diamond speed.

Q: Why Sliptide Serpent?!
A: It returns to your hand. Remember all those Wraths you're playing? Also, picture this: block with Sliptide Serpent, put damage on the stack, return it to my hand...

Q: Samite Archer?
A: Utility on a stick. Damage prevention early in the game when you're going to need it, and direct damage later in the game when you don't. A very solid creature.

Q: Shackles are nice, but what about...
A: Return Shackles to your hand in response to casting your favorite Wrath-like effect. Recycle, re-use.




So, what do you think?
 
K

K

Guest
Nicely done, though I have one question that you did not answer: why Rout? I know it could be played at an Instant speed, but that is for 7 mana.
I would favor 1 additional Wrath of God over 1 of these Routs; unless, that is, you have a good reason.
 
W

Whimsical

Guest
CounterWrath it's not. Good work on this atypical U/W deck, Isty dearie. I seriously question the usage of Cameos here but you've already given a defense for the little buggers ... so, I guess. <smiles and shrugs>

Samite Archer and Sliptide Serpent. Errrrrrr. Wouldn't Blinding Angel be better? One or two of those are always a pain in the posterior, and they function very much like a pseudo-wrath.

Tutors also wouldn't go amiss here. And nah, I won't bother mentioning FoF. That card depends mostly on personal preference.

Regarding why there are Routs. Two reasons. Lobotomy, and to a lesser degree, Void. Two popular spells floating around in T-2.

Happy Magicking! :D
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
K - What Whimsical said. Lobotomy won't do too much to this deck, and neither will Void. I expect both to see heavy play, so two Routs is the obvious answer.

Whimsical - Blinding Angel is good, yes, but it gives your opponent ten turns to draw an answer. Sliptide Serpent is a bag of tricks and has good synergy with Wrathlike spells, and Samite Archer works with both phases of this deck: early (stay alive) and late (deliver tough-to-stop damage).
 
P

Purple_jester

Guest
Very different from the other U/W deck types I've seen. Different enough to be called rogue, actually. Nice work. What's Cho-Manno for, if you're going to go wrathing around, wouldn't a bigger beatstick be more applicable?

How does this deck play aganst Nether-Go, Fires or U/B Control?
 
D

DÛke

Guest
...really nice, though I have some suggestions that you might be interested in.

The Cho-Manno Revolutionary is a great creature, I know, but is Blastoderm really that big of a problem? If it is, than keep Cho-Manno, if it is not, than I think after clearing the table from creatures, Cho-Arrim Bruiser would fit in nicely in the deck. Sure, not as immortal as Cho-Manno, but since the opponent will be low on creatures, this is a 3/4 "unblock-able" beating peasant.

So, you have Samite Archers for early defense, and then for late offense? I see. Stinging Barrier might be able to do that too. I would prefer it to the Archers, since it is a good blocker, not to mention, it can "ping" down unwanted creatures also. Stinging Barrier could also survive Shock, Seal of Fire, and Massacre.

Whimsical, I looked up “Magicking”; I couldn’t find it, than I realized what you meant. I’m so stupid. :)
 
W

Whimsical

Guest
I'd run with Cho-Manno maindeck. Blastoderm is a must counter bugger, and it's no guarantee that your going to hold a counterspell in time. Then again ... with 7 wraths, 9 counterspells, 3 story circles, and a trio of bouncy serpents maindeck ... Blastoderm becomes that less a threat. <starts chanting "Blinding Angel, Blinding Angel, Blinding Angel...">

And yes, I agree with Dukey that Stinging Barrier might be a viable replacement to Samite with a Crossbow. Ultimately depends on player preference.

Have you tested this thing out yet, Isty dearie? Tell us the results! :)

On a side-note ... Dukey dearie ... we all have our off-days. :D

Happy Magicking! :D
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Purple_Jester - Cho-Manno is in there as a superb blocker. Even if your opponent isn't playing Blastoderm, he's probably playing some creature, and Cho-Manno can stand in front of it and laugh. Nether Spirit, for example.

Duke - Stinging Barrier is a feasible replacement for Samite Archer...except it can't prevent damage to you should something get through, and it costs one more mana to play. In the early game, one mana (and one point of damage each turn) can mean the game.

Whimsical - Due to a lack of a local T2 environment, I haven't tested this thing out, and I don't know if I can. :/
 
D

DÛke

Guest
...Istanbul, I see where what you mean about the Stinging Barrier versus the Samite Archer; though, one thing:
...except it can't prevent damage to you should something get through...
The Stinging Barrier overcomes the "disadvantage" of not being able to prevent damage by being able to block, unlike the Samite Archer. It is up to you; though, to me, it seems that blocking something with power up to 3 and surviving is better than preventing 1 damage, and not to mention, not being able to deal direct damage.

Purple_Jester, I will have to go with Istanbul with this one; Cho-Manno is really powerful, even though it might be destroyed with Istabnul's own Wrath-like cards. Nothing beats an immortal blocker.
 
Z

Zero

Guest
Duke; Why bother with the Wall when you have Cho?

And Istanbul, if you ever want to playtest on apprentice, I as well have found a lack of type II players as of late. I am always open to a game.
 
T

The Magic Jackal

Guest
Counter wrath should look something like this

land: 24
10x Island
6x Plains
4x adakar wastes
4x Coastal Tower

artifact: 2
2x millstone

WHITE: 13
4x Wrath of God
4x enlightened tutor
2x Rout
1x Story Circle
2x jeweled spirit


BLUE: 13
4x Counterspell
4x prohibit
2x foil
4x fact or ficiton
1x recall


GOLD: 6
4x Absorb
2x teferi's moat

The only main difference is this decktype that I've seen are the number of millstones, moats, and ciricles played.
 
D

DÛke

Guest
...can you really have enough blockers in this creature-filled environment? Probably not. One extra blocker could make all the difference.
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Duke - You have a valid point, except what can Stinging Barrier do against direct damage? What about flying creatures? If it flew, I'd probably use it instead. Since it doesn't...well, it's worth considering one or two *along with* the Samite Archer, since as you said, blockers can be key. Still, that four casting cost hurts.

Zero - Sounds fun. Add me to your ICQ list, if you have one, and we'll set up a game sometime.

MJ - Uhhhh...that's great. Except Jeweled Spirit is pretty weak, having one Story Circle is a mistake, I don't like Foil or Prohibit, and if I wanted a decklist, I would have asked for one.
 
D

DÛke

Guest
...

Well, Istanbul, sure the Archers could prevent 1 point of damage from a flier, but what could it do against those larger grounders? Prevent 1 damage? With the Barrier, you could be blocking those creatures and dealing damage to smaller creatures or to the opponent. About the Archer being able to prevent direct damage…well, sure. Do you mean Shock and Seal of Fire in particular? If I had a Shock or the Seal in my hand, I’d be targeting that little Archer of yours, unfortunately, the Archer’s ability is not good enough to save its own soul from Shock or Seal of Fire.

You’re so worried about the Archer coming into play 1 turn earlier, but what could it do in that one turn? Either deal 1 damage or prevent 1 damage. If you’re patient 1 turn, you could get the Barrier out, and possibly prevent more than 1 damage with the Barrier’s 4 toughness, and still deal 1 point of damage to whatever.

I can’t judge, but you can’t either…you haven’t play tested the deck yet. I think you should play test it, and see which fits better.
 
S

Smithy

Guest
I played U/W in a tournament recently, and although quite different to Istanbuls unique version, it contained many similar elements.

Enchantress decks and those that use BOPs and Elf mana, such as Armadillo decks DONOT like Samite Archers. They slow down Nether Shadow too;)
Which reminds me Exile is a card worth considering.

I used Wall of Air as my main blocker 'cause not only is it fat(ish) and flys, it's cheap to cast.

A Control U/W wouldn't have walls or Archers anyway, just maybe, a bunch of Air Elementals and we know that Istanbuls deck isn't that type of deck.
 
D

DÛke

Guest
......the only reason I replied to this deck is because it is unique and different than an original, stuck up, revolting, and contemptible Blue/White control. This deck actually looks fun, and commanding at the same time; that has got to be worth something; even if Istanbul made it. :)

Also, Istanbul, how about 1 Rath's Edge?
 
I

Istanbul

Guest
Duke - Trouble is, this deck really only runs 22 mana sources. That may sound like a lot, but it can also mean that you could end up simply not having enough mana to cast a Stinging Barrier. It's not likely, but it's more likely than not getting three mana out for the Archer.
Actually, what I think this deck is *really* missing is Dismantling Blow. I was asking myself, 'What does this deck do against Chimeric Idols?' and 'Try to blow them up with a Devout Witness or block with Cho-Manno' doesn't really satisfy me.

Smithy - I *love* Wall of Air. I can't believe I forgot it. If only Hermetic Study were still in T2, I could piece together my OWN flying Stinging Barrier. *sigh* Oh well.

Oh, and no Rath's Edge. I don't like the idea of a controllish deck throwing land away; by the time Rath's Edge is worth it, you really ought to either need your land for spells, or be inflicting beats without it.
 
D

Duel

Guest
Istanbul, I worry about the quality of your creatures. Isn't Jeweled spirit about 3 times as good as sliptide serpent, fr instance? I won't argue with the magetas...
 
D

DÛke

Guest
Duel, Istanbul clearly said why he has the Sliptide Serpent. How could Jeweled Spirit survive Wrath, Route, and Mageta? Jeweled Spirit is good, but I'm afraid Istanbul has mad a good choice by choosing the Serpent.

Istanbul, I understand about Rath's Edge. As for your wanting the Dismantling Blow, do you really want this Disenchant alternative? I mean, you will not include the Stinging Barrier because it costs 1 more mana, do you really want something like Dismantling Blow in your deck? Personally, I think you should go with 2 Seal of Clense. You could play the Seal early, making sure that the Rising Waters will not see play until the opponent deals with this Seal obstacle first.
 
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