Transcendence in MP

[Spiderman]

Transcendence

Color= White
Type= Enchantment
Cost= 3WWW
TO(R)

Text (TO): You don't lose the game for having 0 or less life. ; When you have 20 or more life, you lose the game. Whenever you lose life, you gain 2 life for each 1 life you lost. (Damage dealt to you causes you to lose life.)

Okay, I now have two of these and that's enough to build a deck around However, dopey me needs some ideas. I'm guessing the "Pay x life" cards get around the condition above, are there any others? What colors should I go with? I'm initially thinking W/U just so I can protect it since I don't have the card that says enchantments can't be the targets of spells or effects.

 

[train]

Don't forget CoP's with sleight of minds and Aegis of Honor... You'll be rocking anybody's world... The Aegis is nice if someone tries to Rage with kicker!!!

 

[Mikeymike]

I think a good way to protect yourself from Transcendence's "You lose at 20 life" is with Claws of Gix. Not only can you gain life to lose life (huh?) but you can also sac the Tranny if you are nearing 20 life.

What might be better would be something that allows you to bounce permanents and/or enchantments back to your hand, so again when the Tranny gets to dangerous you can bounce it to your hand and start it over when you are ready. Off the top of my head I can only think of Umbilicus, but I'm nearly positive there is a creature or enchantment that allows for the easy bouncing of white enchantments. A simple Time Elemental can do it as well.

You can also Donate it to the lifegain mage, as it will be an instant kill.

With it I'd probably run Black 'pay X life to draw' cards like Greed, Bargain, Necropotence, and/or Necrologia.

 

[Spiderman]

Okay, I also need some kill methods. Bounce is a good idea so it'll probably be W/U with a splash of B for Greed (just so I can use it and see how it goes). I have one Iridescent Angel to continue my theme of using gold cards (see my R/B deck); should I use Control Magic and its ilk since I;m using blue (although my opponents hate that) or go for creatures?

 

[train]

Tradewinds - bounce and Meddling Mages - they're gold!!!

 

[Ferret]

Well, let's see...try U/W

Island Sanctuary will keep people from attacking you- along w/ some strong fliers... Karma's good .You can try to use Magical Hack to affect whatever lands you don't like...Alabaster Potion can allow you to give lots of life to your oponents. They hit twenty, they die. If you want to be really sick you can use some of Blue's really big critters like Leviathan or Polar Kracken - an attack from one of those could kill a player w/ one hit....

-Ferret

"...kickin' it old school..."

 

[Spiderman]

I actually have Island Sanctuary in another white deck and it's not too good with my group; everyone plays with fliers (and one guy has Wonder). I might try a big blue creature just for the heck of it; no one's done that so far in my group. I'll keep kicking around some ideas...

 

[rkoelsch]

I think the claws is a good idea. also for protecting the transcendance- fountain watch also sterling groves. Hana can get it back as whell as argivian find. then you can get some prodigals and ping them to death. Other than being the biggest target with a red x on your chest that would be fun.

 

[Spiderman]

Unfortunately, I don't have any of those cards except for Claws and maybe the Find; have to look. So I'll probably go with bounce, the Angel, and a big blue creature for the kill. Fortunately there isn't too many disenchant effects in the group but that could change

 

[theorgg]

There's a black uncommon from Onslaught that Anthony Alongi reviewed on Magicthegathering.com

It makes you lose two life for each life gained insted...

How does that work with transcendance?

Well, I take one, gain two, loose four, gain eight, loose sixteen... and the game draws... O.K., I didn't say it was a good combonation, but somtimes it can work in your favor.

If you're going to lose, so shall't everone!

 

[Spiderman]

It probably depends on how it's worded. It could be another triggered effect like Transcendence or a replacement effect.

 

[Mikeymike]

I saw a ruling question on this somewhere. Do to their wording, it appears that it would create a loop that would cause the caster to continue losing life.

Gaining 2 life means you lose 4 life
Which triggers Tranny to gain 8, which loses you 16, etc. etc.

And I don't believe you can die in the midst of this process since it never actually happens, it just keeps growing. Therefore it locks the game up.

But it wasn't addressed in the FAQ so I don't know what the final decision was on it.

 

[Spiderman]

If each is a trigger, you should be able to die because before each trigger resolves, state-based effects are checked. If they are replacement effects, then you could get into a loop, but you might only supposed to be applying them once if they're modifying the same event

 

[Lotus Mox]

False Cure is a trigger, so there's no loop, you'd just die.

False Cure BB
Instant
Until end of turn, whenever a player gains life, that player loses 2 life for each 1 life he or she gained.

 

[Jigglypuff]

You would loop forever. Here's how it goes:

You control Transcendence and you play a False Cure. You then Shock yourself. You are at 10.

The Shock deals you 2 damage. You drop to 8.
Transcendence triggers and gives you 4. You are at 12.
False Cure triggers and you lose 8. You are at 4.
Transcendence triggers and gives you 16. You are at 20.
Transcendence's "Lose the game" trigger and False Cure both trigger. You control both so you can stack them however you wish. If you stack False Cure and then Transcendence, you lose. But if you stack Transcendence and False Cure, you will lose 32 and go to -12. (You stay alive because of Transcendence.)
Transcendence triggers, etc.

This loop will continue with no way to stop it, so the game will draw.

(- Steve -)

 

[theorgg]

Actually, if that IS the text Lotus Mox posted(I havn't seen a single REAL Onslaught card, much less read all the images on the 'net), then he's right. It doesn't say they "insted" lose life, thus it would use the stack.

Shock, you'd loose two, gain four, lose eight, gain sixteen, lose thirty-two... and would die to state-based effects because you have zero life and priority.

Well, that's a good thing...

 

[NorrYtt]

You control Transcendence and you play a False Cure. You then Shock yourself. You are at 10.

The Shock deals you 2 damage. You drop to 8.
Transcendence triggers and gives you 4. You are at 12.
False Cure triggers and you lose 8. You are at 4.
Transcendence triggers and gives you 16. You are at 20.
Transcendence's "Lose the game" trigger and False Cure both trigger. You control both so you can stack them however you wish. If you stack False Cure and then Transcendence, you lose. But if you stack Transcendence and False Cure, you will lose 32 and go to -12. (You stay alive because of Transcendence.)
Transcendence triggers, etc.

This loop will continue with no way to stop it, so the game will draw.

I think this is what happens. This topsy-turvy life gain loss scenario. But the game is not a draw.

Infinite loops produce draws when mandatory choices are made and players cannot break the loop. In this case, I can easily break the loop by stacking the False Cure first and then Transcendence, so I lose.

I think.

 

[Jigglypuff]

Right. You can stack False Cure and then Transcendence's "Lose the game" trigger and then lose the game. But your only chance to do it would be right here. The Transcendence's "Lose the game" trigger will not trigger again after this point because it is a state-trigger and won't trigger again until it has resolved.

410.11. Some triggered abilities trigger on a game state, such as a player controlling no permanents of a particular type, rather than triggering when an event occurs. These abilities trigger as soon as the game state matches the condition (even if it's not legal to play a spell or ability at that time). These are called state triggers. (Note that state triggers aren't the same as state-based effects.) A state-triggered ability doesn't trigger again until the pseudospell it created has resolved or been countered. Then, if the permanent with the ability is still in play and the game state still matches its trigger condition, the ability will trigger again.
Example: A permanent's ability reads, "When your hand is empty, draw a card." If its
controller plays the last card from his or her hand, the ability will trigger once and won't trigger again until it has resolved. If its controller plays a spell that reads "Discard your hand, then draw the same number of cards," the ability will trigger during the spell's resolution because the player's hand was momentarily empty.

If you don't end the loop at that point, you will never be able to end it.

EDIT: theorgg: Transcendence allows you to stay alive even though you have less than 1 life. It's not exactly relevant, but I pointed it out anyway.

(- Steve -)

 

[theorgg]

*theorgg is slowly realizing he's getting out of the loop of the game he loves...

 

[Lotus Mox]

Orgg, same here

I didn't realise that Transcendence's lose the game ability is a triggered one.