The Ultimate Mistake!

Discussion in 'Rules Questions' started by Killer Joe, Jul 7, 2003.

  1. Killer Joe Active Member

    I was in a non-sanctioned draft a couple of weeks ago and made this mistake:

    I played a card face-down, but when I went to pay it's Morph cost it turned out to be Whipgrass Entangler instaed of Daru Sanctifier.

    I was going to scoop when my opponent said since it's a non-sanctioned tourney we should go on. I knew I was going to lose anyway but decieded to stay in the game.

    As it turned out, I lost the match any way.

    I should have scooped because it was the right thing to do.

    QUESTION: What happens if this mistake is made at a sanctioned tournemant? I heard a rumor that you could be banned for life.

    ~Mark
  2. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    I'm not positive but I think the mana used to morph will be in your mana pool and you leave the guy face-down.
  3. train The Wildcard!!!...

    It's a Procedural Error at the least - Minor or Major is up to the circumstances... I would personally say minor...

    111. Procedural Error—Minor

    Definition
    A minor procedural error occurs when a player performs an unintentional, slightly disruptive action at a tournament.

    Examples
    (A) A player indicates "Phyrexian Debaser" instead of "Phyrexian Defiler" while recording the contents of his sealed deck.
    (B) A player fails to provide a reliable method to track her life total.
    (C) A player in a Pokémon tournament fails to provide or use a method to keep accurate track of the amount of damage on his Pokémon.
    (D) A player repeatedly holds her cards below the table.
    (E) A player leaves a small amount of garbage in the tournament area (such as a gum wrapper or scrap of paper from a score pad).
    (F) A player is using a snow-covered land in a Standard Magic tournament.
    (G) In an NFL Showdown game, a coach swipes his or her #1 player instead of his or her #2 player.

    Philosophy
    Procedural errors vary significantly. The judge should adjust the penalty appropriately to reflect the level of tournament disruption.

    Penalty
    If the procedural error makes it impossible for a player to effectively complete the game or match in the allotted period of time, the judge should upgrade the penalty to a match/game loss. In the case of the NFL Showdown game, this should result in a five-yard penalty, and the players should swipe the cards again.

    Procedural Error—Minor
    All Levels
    Caution


    112. Procedural Error—Major

    Definition
    A major procedural error occurs when a player performs an unintentional, disruptive action at the tournament.

    Examples
    (A) A player fails to write her name on her decklist.
    (B) A player replaces cards in his sealed deck with copies of the same card—without permission from a judge.
    (C) A player does not sufficiently randomize her deck before presenting it to her opponent.
    (D) A player leaves a large amount of garbage in the tournament area (such as uneaten food and/or food wrappers).
    (E) A player in a Magic tournament plays Wrath of God (mana cost: 2WW) using one white mana and three colorless mana.
    (F) A player in a Magic tournament attempts to play Treachery on a creature with protection from blue.
    (G) A player shuffles his deck after an opponent has cut it.
    (H) During her match, a player looks at her sideboard cards.
    (I) A player has blackened out all the artwork on one of his Wrath of God cards. The card can no longer be distinguished by artwork alone.
    (J) A player in a Pokémon tournament attempts to play a Gold Berry after applying a Professor Elm.

    Philosophy
    Procedural errors vary significantly. The judge should adjust the penalty appropriately to reflect the level of tournament disruption.

    Penalty
    If the procedural error makes it impossible for a player to effectively complete the game or match in the allotted period of time, the judge should upgrade the penalty to a match/game loss.

    Procedural Error—Major
    All Levels
    Warning
  4. EricBess Active Member

    I think there's only been 1 person ever banned for life and it was for very severe misconduct. Cheating will get you suspended, but not for life. How long depends on how flagrant and a host of other factors. And just cheating once will probably only get you DQ'd from the tournament, not suspended. There has to be a history.

    As far as the circumstances you present, however, that's the exact scenario that happened to Kai Budde that lost him his position in the top 8 of German nationals.

    He had just won his match 2-1, which was good enough to put him in top 8. As he was revealing his morphs, he discovered his mistake. They called a judge and a game loss (current game) was issued.

    This really is the appropriate solution. The game state has been incorrect for a good portion of the game. That's not something you can go back and correct, so the current game has been being played on a faulty premise and is invalid. He should lose the game. If he already lost the game anyway, it stands, he doesn't lose any further games, and it is still entered into the computer as a game loss and a warning.

    That really is the appropriate penalty. It wouldn't remain face down because you are continuing to misrepresent the card in that case.

    If you noticed it and tried to hide it from your opponent, then you might get away with it. If you get caught trying this, however, then you get the DQ for cheating.

    Personally, I think the two cards in question should have never made it past the art director. One has art of a cleric in bamboo armor standing over a guy wrapped in vines and an ability costing 1W. The other...well, I guess I just described them both.
  5. train The Wildcard!!!...

    The Game/Match Loss is an upgradeable option for both the minor and major procedural erros as explained in the penalty sections...

    I guess I didn't actually say the penalty I'd give, just which I'd classify it under... I'd also have given game loss... match is just harsh...;)

    If it was considered Cheating-Other - it would be a DQ without prize... there is not a replacement penalty for any Cheating, besides DQ w.o. prize...

    "I find it funny they say "without prize"... can I then have the prize"

    :p
  6. Killer Joe Active Member

    I'm glad I know you guys :D

    As always, thanks.

    ~Mark

Share This Page