The deckdoctor is now in session!

Discussion in 'Casual Decks/Variants/Etc' started by Gizmo, Feb 29, 2000.

  1. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Hi all,
    With the Dojo message boards down for the duration (curses) Psychotic Tutor suggested I swing by here.

    For those who don`t know me, my name is David Sutcliffe, a pretty good player from the UK (1900+ ranking) with some PT experience, and I write for starcityccg.com
    But more importantly once upon a time, not so long ago, I specialised in playing the wierd and wonderful so I should be able to help bring your ideas as close to competitive as possible (like the time where I gained 5 life more each turn than I had gained the previous turn, 'gain 5', 'gain 10', 'gain 15' - he conceded when I got to 'gain 55') and I get real joy from building the rogue decks, or for wierd formats, although unfortunately my commitment to keeping my DCI above 1850 means I rarely get to actually play them.

    Anyhoo, enough about me...
    ...as the topic says - the deckdoctor is in session!
  2. Captain Caveman New Member

    Hi Gizmo,

    Glad you could make it.

    Bob
    Captain Caveman(a.k.a psychotic tutor)

    For your first task, lets make this deck good

    MBC Blue
    4 cloud sprite
    4 rishadan airship
    2 Coastal Piracy
    4 cloudskate
    2 waterfront bouncer
    2 Stinging Barrier
    2 daze
    4 counterspell
    4 seal of removal
    4 accumulated knowledge
    4 brainstorm
    18 islands
    3 Rishadan Port
    1 Dust Bowl

    any thoughts?
  3. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Hey Gizmo, glad you're here.

    Was wondering if you'd ever make it...

    Glad to find out that I'm not the only one having problems with the Dojo's forums.
  4. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Well, it`s just a Wheel Of Phish variant, and I like Wheel a ton anyway so this should be an easy start.

    When I played Wheel I found that almost always the best spell (outside of Coastal Piracy sillyness) was Boomerang, and I would prob put them back in for the SealRemoval. And with Coastal Piracy I think that running Brainstorm and Accum Knowledge is overkill - you might as well play more good spells instead of lots of ways of seeing a few good spells. I think Accum Knowledge is basically a slow control card, so I would oust that for a bit more board control, probably Treachery if you have them as they are often your best answer to the thorniest questions.
    In fact I personally hate Brainstorm as well, but that`s just personal prejudice, and I`ve only heard Zvi Mowshowitz agree with me that "it`s just an expensive Urza`s Bauble", so I would drop them for more countermagic but I don`t expect many other people would.
    The only other card I don`t like is Cloudskate. My team is currently in a debate about whether Skate is good or not, and we came to the conclusion that you would play it in UnstableMutation Fish, but not in Curiosity Fish, and Wheel is more like the latter than the former. I know I`m naming another rare (and one I`ve slagged off a couple of times elsewhere) but have you considered a couple of the new Rootwater Thief in there, and perhaps a couple of Spire Owls?
    And YET MORE rares - isn`t Masticore better than Stinging Barrier, esp with Coastal Piracy around?
  5. Captain Caveman New Member

    The deck is for the MBC environment.

    Its sort of a Phish deck built for that
    limited environment, so many of the good
    cards you suggested aren't legal.

    Thanks for the reply.
  6. theorgg Slob

    Team Cand!man?

    that sounds familar...

    Have you gotten an artical or five published on the dojo?

    I think so, but I'm not to sure...

    A little warning: some people arn't big "pro's" here. we jus' like to have fu.
  7. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Hey theorgg:

    You kind of implied that if Gizmo is on a team AND/or having articles published on the Dojo makes him a big pro.

    Despite his ranking (which I never knew until the beginning post in this thread), Gizmo definately doesn't come off as a pro, either on the Dojo or here (he also explained himself in the beginning post too).

    I don't know what else to say; it just seemed like you were already giving him a warning of some type that was unwarranted, IMHO.
  8. Dune Echo CPA Founder, Idea Man

    Orgg: David's okay. He wrote on that huge Art of Beatdown thread. Great stuff by the way. Nice arguements there.

    -Dune Echo

    Orgg: GO TO THE TRADING POST ALREADY!
  9. asadoine Guest

    Hey Gizmo, good to have you here...

    first a little bit of OFF SUBJECT...
    I studied in Sheffield (not so far away from Manchester, nice soccer rivarly between the 2) and god knows I miss the pubs, the night clubs and getting home drunk in a black cab ...

    Ahhhh the good old times.

    Now to the point ... I got a hunch that the new seals in NM might make enchanteress decks viable.. your opinion ?

    just an idea as I write :
    T2 :
    Green :
    3 argothian ench
    3 verdurant ench
    3 yavimaya ench
    2 endless wurm
    4 bop

    4 rancor
    4 "giant growth seal"
    2 ancestral mask

    white
    4 mother of rune
    3 tethered griffin
    2 faith healer ( sac enchant to gain life)

    4 "disenchant" seal
    2 spirit link
    1 Worship

    Land :
    4 brushland
    2 craddle
    2 sanctum
    4 city of brass
    2 hickory woodlot
    2 forest
    3 plain


    well just an idea ... in extended could be even better.

    For multiplayer it is even more fun with COPs and other anti red and anti balck enchants.


    berto
  10. Zadok001 CPA Founder, Greater Good

    GIZMO! Welcome, welcome, welcome. Wonderful to have you here, I've been missing the 'Art of __" threads.

    I remember having a bunch of great debates with you...

    "Rivalry? That card sucks. You did WHAT with it? You're sick! :)"
  11. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Aw shucks, y`all embarrasin' me with your purty words!

    But seriously, it`s great to know I left some good impressions with you when we were on the Dojo. But my ego is already large enough as it is, so let`s get down to business...

    Spiderman:
    "Gizmo definately doesn't come off as a pro"

    Hmm, I think I`ll choose to take that as a compliment...

    Captain Caveman:
    Sorry, I didn`t get the significance of MBC. That makes life harder for the designer, but the fundamental problems are the same - more board control.
    Dominate is expensive, and a deck really needs to get into the late game to use it, so I don`t think it`s viable here, maybe Overtaker but that has the same problem, and there just isn`t a single Boomerang-quality return spell either. I`m beginning to feel that the cards just aren`t in Masques to make this deck viable.
    The closest version would have to be Indentured Djinn/Rising Waters. It`s a totally different deck, but the closest in that its 'The Blue Time-Advantage Deck'. I won`t give out a list because, as I said, it`s a totally new deck and doesn`t really fall under deckdoctoring as such.

    Asadoine:
    Actually I consider Enchantress decks to be all too viable already, so much so that I absolutely HATE Ancestral Mask as I have been beaten by it so many times when I would have won if he hadn`t topdecked it. Ancestral Mask is like Hatred - you can have a deck that is complete ****e, and I can be winning against it by a huge margin - then they topdeck the Mask and I die there and then to a 24/25 Bird Of Paradise.

    A rough list, judging from what I get hit by:

    4 Birds Of Paradise
    4 Argothian Enchantress
    4 Verduran Enchantress
    3 Yavimaya Enhantress

    4 Exploration
    4 Wild Growth
    4 Fertile Growth
    3 Rancor
    3 Ancestral Mask

    2 Faith Healer (combo with Rancor for cardrawing)

    2 Seal Of Cleansing
    1 Worship
    1 Replenish

    2 Gaea`s Cradle
    2 Serra`s Sanctum
    3 City Of Brass
    4 Brushland
    10 Forest

    Not much Nemesis in at all, really.
  12. Spart New Member

    I've got a deck in need of an operation. Caveman, a.k.a. Psychotic Tutor, helped me develop it. First the List:

    4 x ravenous rats
    4 x mother of runes
    4 x monk idealist
    3 x bone shredder
    2 x venerable monk
    2 x highway robber

    4 x parallax wave
    4 x seal of cleansing
    4 x enlightened tutor
    4 x vampiric tutor

    14 x plains
    11 x swamp

    The deck is based around the interaction of parallax wave with monk idealist and any of the other CIP creatures. With wave and the idealist in play, remove the idealist, and four other creatures (including the opponents). During your next upkeep, the wave will be destroyed and all of the creatures will come back into play. Use the idealist to put the wave into your hand, and then cast it again. The "combo" is fairly consistent and locks down about three creatures of the opponents while recurring one added CIP ability (other than idealist's) and costing four mana a turn to maintain.

    What do you think?
  13. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Nice, I like it - so why are you using the Black, when Avalanche Riders and Ghitu Slinger are so attractive in red?
    I`m trying to figure out if this is better than Lifeline.dec, I think probably it is because it need only affect your monsters.

    I think you`ve basically got ALL the wrong creatures for this deck, from White I would probably only take Wave, Idealist, and Academy Rector. Okay, I`m going to build this from the ground up, so give me a moment...
    (pay close attention, this is actually how I build all my decks)

    A: The basic principles are:
    1. We are Lifeline.dec, only better. Our combo is slow and controlly and therefore we are not necessarily in a rush to get it out because it doesn`t shout 'AHA - I WIN!' when it arrives.
    2. We therefore need to survive into midgame at least, and so we need the cards in the combo to have outside synergy.

    B: How do we want it to play:
    Land + nothing (suggests use of Remote Farm etc to me)
    Land + something
    Land + Idealist,
    Land + Wave (from now on in you are unlikely to lose to creatures as you have a permanent Wave)
    Land + 187 creature
    Land, abuse 187 creature

    C: The Decklist

    2 Enlightened Tutor
    4 Monk Idealist
    3 Academy Rector
    3 Parallax Wave
    (12 cards)

    So far we are mono-white, so we have the luxury of deciding which color to splash out for. I think the best options are:
    Red: Avalanche Riders, Ghitu Slinger, Seal of Fire
    Green: Deranged Hermit, Yavimaya Granger, splash 5-color 187s
    Blue: Rishadan Brigand, Glowing Anaenome, Seal of Removal

    Red looks hard to build as it has no flexibility. Green is treading the same sort of route as Pattern.dec and I`ve got dozens of those lists already so I`m going to try something different and go with blue.

    Now then, we need other enchantments in to make proper synergistic use of the Idealist and the Rector.

    4 Seal Of Removal
    3 Seal Of Cleansing
    1 Second Chance (can you see it? can you?)
    (20 cards)

    Now, are we always going to want to get a Wave, SealR or SealC when kill the Rector?
    I think we need another good option for when we aren`t ready to combo.

    1 Worship
    (21 cards)

    We also need appropriate CIP creatures to make use of the Parallax Wave.

    4 Rishadan Cutpurse
    3 Rishadan Footpad
    3 Glowing Anenomae
    3 Rishadan Brigand
    (34 cards)

    All this is going to be expensive, so I think we need AT LEAST 24 land, which gives us only two slots left to play with. Where do have mana gaps?

    1cc:4SealR, 2Tutor
    2cc:3SealC
    3cc:4MonkI, 4RishCut, 1SecondChance
    4cc:3Rector, 3Anenomae, 3Footpad, 4PWave
    5cc:3RishBrig

    Well, we are overloaded at 4cc, with nothing at 2cc. That sounds like the perfect recipe for Diamonds, and also suits the use of Rishadan Port quite nicely as well. Racing to 4 mana means we will probably need the Farms and Skerrys, and seeing as once the Wave is in play we still need WW2 to replay it I think the last few slots should be dedicated to mana.

    4 Rishadan Port
    4 Remote Farm
    4 Saprazzan Skerry
    4 Adarkar Wastes
    3 Islands
    7 Plains
    (60 cards)

    Looking back the Seal Of Removal might be overkill, but in a creature-heavy environment they will be worth their weight in gold so I think we keep them as they are good against almost everything (Bargain, Sneak, aggro) except mono-blue but this deck will lose to blue anyway so that`s not a major problem.

    What do you think?
  14. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Doh!
    Completely forgot we might actually be interested in sacrificing the Academy Rector...

    +3 High Market
    -1 Island
    -2 Plains
  15. asadoine Guest

    I like the deck building method...

    berto
  16. Spart New Member

    Nice, I like this look a lot better. I just have one question... If gilded drake is removed from the game do I keep control of my opponents creature? If so, think of the interaction with the wave... Cast drake, steal a creature, remove drake with wave, it comes back next turn, I get another creature...

    :) :) :)

    Thanks for you great comments! Do you know if this works???
  17. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Okay, so now we want some Gilded Drakes in as well!
    Hmm...I guess you drop out a couple of Rishadan Cutpurse.

    Well spotted, Spart.
  18. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    Gizmo: Well, I guess you could take it as a compliment :) I was just trying to say that you have NEVER sounded like the typical pro who might a report on the Dojo. As I said before, I had no inkling of your ranking and I just thought you were very analytical of cards and decks, just like the rest of the guys from the Dojo who debated with you on the various "Art" threads.

    Side thought: One of my first posts on the old forums on the Dojo referred to Ferret in what I thought was a complimentary way and he "questioned" it too. It must be me... :)
  19. Gizmo Composite: 1860

    Relax Spidey, I`m just yanking your chain.
    Now I`m new to this CPA lark but I want to know how I get to be a 'wall crawler' or an 'idea man'.

    It`s just not fair!
  20. Duel Has Less Posts Than Spiderman

    I consider myself to be one of the more casual players ("It's banned? So what? I like the card!" etc.) So I'm submitting a combo deck that I've worked on for years and have never managed to get moving, despite spending money getting it together.

    Tolaria

    Creatures
    2x Mahomati
    2x Serra Angel

    Spells (yes, that's all the creatures)
    4x Island sanctuary
    4x Mystic decree
    2x Conversion
    2x Douse
    2x Hidden reatreat
    4x Counterspell
    2x Disenchant
    4x Mind bend
    2x Bribery
    1x Whim of Volrath

    Artifact
    3x Howling mine
    1x Angel's trumpet
    4x Millstone
    2x Arcane Laboratory

    Land
    9 Islands
    9 Plains
    1 Serra's Sanctum

    The theme is Island sanctuary, howling mine, and mystic decree. No creatures can attack you, you still draw, and hopefully you can convince Mr. Opponent to deck himself. Eventually, you won't be drawing, asnd you should either be able to counter his one spell a turn, or you have all his land as plains. It works about a third of the time in duels, less in multiplayer. The speed is okay (island sanctuary and howling mine both only cost two) but it never seems to stop people. Any suggestions?

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