T-2 Cheapguy B/R

W

Whimsical

Guest
What with all the discussions floating around about Sligh and Deadguy Red, I present mah Cheapguy (Deadguy it ain't :D ) B/R deck...

Powering all the Nonsense (22)
10 Mountains
8 Swamps
4 Sulfurous Springs

Budget Termination (2)
2 Soul Burn

3cc Cheapguys (4)
4 Vicious Kavu

2cc Cheapguys (8)
4 Hate Weaver
4 Shivan Zombie

1cc Cheapguys (8)
4 Kris Mage
4 Raging Goblin

Cheap Pump (4)
4 Maniacal Rage

Cheap Cheese (12)
4 Shock
4 Seal of Fire
4 Scorching Lava

Frankly, the most expensive thing here are the Sulfurous Springs. It could benefit immensely from "power" cards like Blazing Specter, Urza's Rage, and Pyre Zombies but then it wouldn't be called Cheapguy then, no? :D

It's fun, fast, and a tad bit vicious for the slow opponent. Watch it fall flat in the face of Blastoderm though. <laughs> Comments? Criticisms? Letterbombs? Skip out on the letterbombs though ... mah trained dogs all have a bad case of the Hong Kong Phooey flu... :D
 
P

Purple_jester

Guest
Oh... You meant CHEAP. As in inexpensive...

Fine. No twittering birds then. <starts muttering about how everyone has forgotten about love and peace with their violent decks>

Now, let's see this deck... AHA! No, wait... AHA! (again)

Ahem. Too much land. You've got a 1cc tolerance level and a 2cc efficiency level. 20 lands is fine.

Also, Blasto-boy falls flat if you've got either one of these: Urborg Skeleton, Drudge Skeleton, Chilling Appartion. And after these guys, if the nasty Derm is still bothering you, then I highly recommend main-decking Perish. :D

BTW, I'm not really a Soul Burn fan. Snuff Out for emergencies? How about Rhystic Lightning? Blaze? Breath of Dari... <smack self in face> Heh-heh. Forget that last one. ;)
 
D

DÛke

Guest
...start out by saying that I love your decks Whimseee. :)

Now, for the deck: you seem to like Black and Red mixes (you're move evil than you look). Soul Burn is cool, but your deck is fast. It wants to kick some butt as fast as possible, right? How about Vicious Hunger? I know it's not that great, but lets face it, you're all about fun.

What is up with those lands! You have too many for your cheap guys. How about replace some with even more Vicious Hungers? That’s my 2.75 cents.

This advice is for everyone out there: don't build a deck without (at least) 1 Rath's Edge. Whimseee, add 1 Rath's Edge to the deck, for the Weatherlost's sake!

There...
 
W

Whimsical

Guest
Land count:
A brief test run on Apprentice showed a slight tendency to land glut. 20 lands it is!

Soul Burn:
I initially put in Ghitu Fire, then remembered that the danged thing was a rare. The entire point of Cheapguy is to make a fast, fun, and effective deck without murdalizing your wallet. Any other common/uncommon substitutes?

The Blasted-derm problem:
The Raging Mons Goblins could be dropped in favor of a set of Urborg Skeletons for chump-blocking purposes. Also, given the existence of Maniacal Rage in the deck, playing the Skeletons is not necessarily a waste of time when the Derm is not making a nuisance of itself on the board.

Whimsical's Fascination with Black and Red:
It was mah first ever deck. <laughs> Back then, I ran with 20 lands, no acceleration, loads and loads of X-cheese ... and all the big kahunas I could find. This deck is a tribute to that embarrasing monstrosity I had the nerve to call a deck so many many years ago. :D

A copy of Rath's Edge:
Your wish is mah command, Dukey dearie. ;)

Cheapguy Revised

Powering all the Nonsense (20)
9 Mountains
7 Swamps
3 Sulfurous Springs
1 Rath's Edge

Budget Termination (2)
2 Snuff Out
2 Seal of Doom

3cc Cheapguys (4)
4 Vicious Kavu

2cc Cheapguys (8)
4 Hate Weaver
4 Shivan Zombie

1cc Cheapguys (8)
4 Kris Mage
4 Urborg Skeleton

Cheap Pump (4)
4 Maniacal Rage

Cheap Cheese (12)
3 Shock
3 Seal of Fire
3 Vicious Hunger
3 Scorching Lava


Comments? Suggestions? Flames? ;)
 
P

Purple_jester

Guest
You need a common/uncommon substitute for Ghitu Fire? One word: "Blaze" (uncommon - 6th ed.)

Just two of them, of course. It's the most castrated form of X-burn out there, but what other choice do you have?

I like the Rath's edge idea. If you come across one, Dust Bowl is also a good way to make use of excess lands. But, given the aggressive nature of the deck, Rath's Edge would fit the bill better. ;)
 
F

Firestorm

Guest
Um, did you forget Volcanic Eruption(i think thats what its called) from 6th? Thats been castrated twice...
 
J

Jaws10387

Guest
If you need a common/uncommon replacement for Sulferous Springs you could use Urborg Volcano.
 
Z

Zero

Guest
Someone said it earlier, why not use Vicious Hunger? Its sooooome good:)
 
W

Whimsical

Guest
Regarding inbred cousins of Fireball:
Seems that WoTC is a tad bit determined to deny red mages their dose of X-cheese. <laughs> All things considered, Cheapguy would be better off with black spot removal (i.e., Snuff Out, etc.) than packing along T-2's sorry excuses for X-cheese.

Regarding Firestorm's Confusion:
It's Volcanic Geyser (originally appeared in Mirage and was never really used), Firestorm dearie. Volcanic Eruption belongs in a T-1 Blue Ponza packing Magical Hacks (that combo has been errataed to death, moi thinks).

Regarding Urborg Volcano:
Initially thought about, but rejected. Having a tap land really distracts the deck from attempting to abuse it's mana every turn.

Regarding Dust Bowls and Rath's Edge:
Rath's Edge has been duly noted and plugged into Cheapguy upon request. Colorless damage is always good. Dust Bowl is too darn iffy considering the deck'll only pack in a solo copy (if ever).

Regarding Vicious Hunger:
Ayup. Check the revised decklist.

Regarding all suggestions:
All suggestions have been duly noted and considered. Thanks, guys and gals! I'm off to make this sucker! Tell you how it works in a few days... :D
 
F

Firestorm

Guest
Ah yes, Volcanic Geyser. I think I will be trading both of mine Monday to this one guy. I hate cards that cost an ungodly amount of mana for its use. Reprint Fireball they should.
 
T

TaLoN

Guest
You could try Flame Rift(deals 4 damage to both players) It kind of suicidal but your running vicious hungers to keep your life above your opponents. a faster way to bring down your opponent quickly.
 
D

Duel

Guest
Sure, after all, the most efficient damage is universal!

Cheapguy Dead
4 Rhystic Syphon
4 Viscous hunger
4 highway robbers
4 Flame rift
3 Earthquake
4 Plague spitter
4 Dark rituals
4 Soul burn
4 Bloodstone cameo
2 Charcoal diamond
2 Fire diamond
17 lands, flavored to taste
 
W

Whimsical

Guest
After giving mah purse a mild case of the blues yesterday by purchasing the commons/uncommons I'm missing from Cheapguy, I finally managed to test the sucker out at the local cardshop. It performed beyond all expectations. Here's one match I remember from that day...

G/W Blastogeddon
Round 1 20-20
Me: Mountain, Kris Mage. Done.
Opponent: Forest. Done. Is that a weenie deck? <matching look of surprise on face>

Round 2 20-19
Me: Swamp, Shivan Zombie. Poke for 1 with the Kris Mage. Smile and say, "Yup."
Him: Forest, River Boa. <suddenly spots the Kris Mage> Doh!

Round 3 20-15
Me: Sulfurous Spring, pop the Boa, Maniacal Rage on Zombie. Pound away. Done.
Him: Plains, Noble Panther. Glare for a while at huge Zombie. Done.

Round 4 19-10
Me: Seal of Doom, sac and nuke Panther. Pound away for 5. Done.
Him: Forest, Blastoderm. <evil laughter> Done.
Me: <glare at big mean critter>

Round 5
Me: Topdeck an Urborg Skeleton and play it. Laugh at opponent's horrified look on face. Done.
Him: Glazed look on face...

<laughs> He gave up shortly after that. :D

Anyways ... here's a revision of Cheapguy, with an attempt to trim chaff cards.

Cheapguy Revised

Powering all the Nonsense (20)
8 Mountains
7 Swamps
4 Sulfurous Springs
1 Rath's Edge

Budget Termination (2)
2 Snuff Out
2 Seal of Doom

3cc Cheapguys (4)
4 Vicious Kavu

2cc Cheapguys (8)
4 Hate Weaver
4 Shivan Zombie

1cc Cheapguys (8)
3 Kris Mage
3 Urborg Skeleton
2 Thunderscape Apprentice

Cheap Pump (4)
4 Maniacal Rage

Cheap Cheese (12)
3 Shock
3 Seal of Fire
3 Scorching Lava
3 Rhystic Lightning

I've dropped the Vicious Hunger from the deck, finding it a dead card most of the time. Replacing it with Rhystic Lightning gives the deck a much needed oomph-factor.
4 Urborg skeletons is too much. Adding the Thunderscape Apprentices are a nice touch to help with the occasional stall.

Comments? Critiques? Suggestions? ;)
 
D

Duel

Guest
Right, short and to the point. I like the deck, looks like alot of fun to play with.
 
W

Whimsical

Guest
Cheapguy Revised

Powering all the Nonsense (20)
8 Mountains
7 Swamps
4 Sulfurous Springs
1 Rath's Edge

Budget Termination (2)
2 Snuff Out
2 Seal of Doom

3cc Cheapguys (4)
4 Vicious Kavu

2cc Cheapguys (8)
4 Hate Weaver
4 Shivan Zombie

1cc Cheapguys (8)
3 Kris Mage
3 Thunderscape Apprentice
2 Nightscape Apprentice

Cheap Pump (4)
4 Maniacal Rage

Cheap Cheese (12)
3 Shock
3 Seal of Fire
3 Scorching Lava
3 Rhystic Lightning

Sideboard Fun (15)
3 Perish (big green critters are the downfall of this entire deck archetype, especially Blastoderm)
2 Boil (annoy control deck, why don't we?)
3 Dread of Night (Massacre is too darned dangerous for the deck to use, Dread hoses Rebels flat out)
3 Cremate (takes out Hammer, Pyre Zombies, and Nether Spirit. Tormod's Crypt would be better but this is type two. <sighs>)
4 Pillage (for those occasional odd irritating lands and artifacts)

The sideboard is very simple and to the point, adressing the usual problems. Except for enchantments. <laughs> Bring back the Disk!

I dropped the stupid Urborg Skeletons from the deck entirely, finding them really dead weight to the deck. It's awful to topdeck the Skeleton at round 3, when you're at full swing and ready to stomp your opponent flat. Nightscape Apprentices provide a nice oomph-factor in creature-to-creature combat. First strike backed up by burn is amazing.

Hmm. Suggestions? Comments? Critiques?
 
L

Landkiller

Guest
Maybe it's just me, but the Nightscape Apprentice is chaff, since you don't have blue mana.

The Red Ability just seems kinda out of style for an aggressive fast deck.


Why don't you play Duskbringer, since, it will be better than Nightscape Apprentice. And it gives you a late game. That's what I'd recommend.
 
T

TaLoN

Guest
You could try backlash Its a great card to tap a potential blocker. or you could try arc mage to take out some later 2 toughness creatures. just my 200 pesos (mexican pesos :D).
 
W

Whimsical

Guest
Regarding chaff Apprentices:
That's why there are only 2 Nightscape Apprentices in the whole deck, LK dearie. Running with 4 each of Kris Mage and Thunderscape Apprentices is just plain boring. Call moi silly, but I like variety in mah decks. And lots of pretty art! <laughs>

Regarding Backlash:
Hmm. Totally forgot about that card. Leseeeee ... tap a blocker and whap owner of said blocker at the same time. Not bad. Should be amusing to use this thing on a Hunted Wumpus or an Avatar of Woe. The best part of it is ... it's uncommon! Right down the alley of Cheapguy! Thanks!

Regarding Flame Rift:
Yeeeeecccccchhhhhhhhhh.

Regarding Arc Mage:
Naw. The only 3cc in the deck have to be really vicious. Arc Mage is too darned slow for the deck. Kris Mage's big brother gets the boot. :D

Regarding confused card names:
Duskwalker? Naw. Ixnay ootnay ightbray walkerduskay. I don't like that card. The kicker is ridiculous ... and by the time you have that much mana available ... either you're dead or (hopefully) your opponent's dead. That's how fast the game blazes by with this deck...
 
P

Purple_jester

Guest
I really like this deck. Not that I'm ever going to play B/R, but I still like this deck. It's fast, it's furious, it's SLIGH! In type 2!

The only way you can make it better is to add Urza's Rage. Of course, I personally like Rhystic Lightning better. Kills those annoying angels, you know.

Did you say that the ONLY thing that stops it is big green creatures? Then do what I do! PERISH MAINDECK!!! Bwahahahaha!!! There are SO many green decks out there. Don't you just hate their annoying little elves, those prissy birds, those over-powered Blastoderms? ;)
 
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