Sylvan Library

Discussion in 'Rules Questions' started by Killer Joe, Jul 22, 2011.

  1. Killer Joe Active Member

  2. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    First, the normal card draw happens before either Sylvan Library or Howling Mine trigger. I use Abundance to replace this draw. Next, I can decide how to arrange the triggers of Sylvan Library and Howling Mine (since they are simultaneous). I choose for Howling Mine to trigger first. I replace the draw from Howling Mine with Abundance's ability. Sylvan Library triggers and I replace both card draws from Sylvan Library with Abundance's ability. Since I have not drawn any cards this turn, Sylvan Library's drawback does not apply (even though I have put four cards from my library into my hand in the draw step, none of them were ever actually drawn). This is why Abundance is so cool.
  3. Oversoul The Tentacled One

    In the case of Sylvan Library with Howling Mine but without Abundance...

    Firstly, before everything else in the draw step, I take my regular draw for the turn. After that I have three choices...

    First choice:
    Take Howling Mine draw and don't choose to use Sylvan Library's ability at all. Boring, but simple. Then I go to my main phase.

    Second choice:
    I can order the effects of Sylvan Library and Howling Mine so that Howling Mine is first. In that case, I take my Howling Mine draw, then draw two cards from Sylvan Library's ability. If I take this choice, it leads to the following sub-choices...

    1. Pay 8 life.
    2. Pay 4 life, put card from regular draw back on top.
    3. Pay 4 life, put Howling Mine draw back on top.
    4. Pay 4 life, put Sylvan Library draw #1 back on top.
    5. Pay 4 life, put Sylvan Library draw #2 back on top.
    6. Put card from regular draw and Howling Mine draw back on top.
    7. Put card from regular draw and Sylvan Library draw #1 back on top.
    8. Put card from regular draw and Sylvan Library draw #2 back on top.
    9. Put Howling Mine draw and Sylvan Library draw #1 back on top.
    10. Put Howling Mine draw and Sylvan Library draw #2 back on top.
    11. Put both Sylvan Library draws back on top.

    Then I go to my main phase.

    Third choice:
    I can order the effects of Sylvan Library and Howling Mine so that Sylvan Library is first. If I take this choice, it leads to the following sub-choices...

    1. Pay 8 life.
    2. Pay 4 life, put card from regular draw back on top.
    3. Pay 4 life, put Sylvan Library draw #1 back on top.
    4. Pay 4 life, put Sylvan Library draw #2 back on top.
    5. Put card from regular draw and Sylvan Library draw #1 back on top.
    6. Put card from regular draw and Sylvan Library draw #2 back on top.
    7. Put both Sylvan Library draws back on top.

    No matter which of those sub-choices I make, I then take my Howling Mine draw (so if I didn't pay 8 life, I'm drawing a card I just put back on top with Sylvan Library). Then I go to my main phase.

    Anyway, out of those three choices, I would typically go with the second choice so that I have the maximum number of possible cards to look at before choosing which ones to put back or whether to pay life to keep from having to put them back. But Abundance circumvents all of this. I don't have to put a single card back or pay any life and I'm choosing whether each of the cards is a land or non-land instead of drawing blind. So with Abundance, I am basically choosing land or non-land, revealing cards until I reveal one of the chosen kind and placing that card into my hand, putting the revealed cards on the bottom of my library in any order, then repeating this process three times (once for Howling Mine and twice for Sylvan Library).

    Also note that with Abundance, each copy of Sylvan Library that you have in play is two more cards pseudo-drawn in this way, whereas normally multiple copies of Sylvan Library are only barely more useful than a single copy.
  4. Shabbaman insert avatar here

    It also works with other draw replacement effects like Dredge, Words of ... and Archmage Ascension.

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