Stupid CPA extinction poll

The state of the CPA...

  • Is: alive and kicking.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Is: it's still a viable place for Magic talk.

    Votes: 1 50.0%
  • Is: it's still here, somehow.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Has seen: better days.

    Votes: 1 50.0%
  • Is: in it's September days.

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    2
E

Ephraim

Guest
I fall into a classification that has been informally dubbed "seriously casual." The idea of that kind of play is that one picks a suboptimal deck idea (ie: something that can't/won't make it in competetive play) and develop it as far as it will go with as rigorous of a development process as one would give to a competetive deck. Obviously, the deck must remain within the stated constraints, which may as restrictive as the player wishes. I've built decks where the "theme" was as loose as "I've got four copies of this rare, so I ought to do something with them" or as strict as "All of the creatures must either produce mana or be golems."

This mentality, however, does not seem to be well-supported here. I've seen numerous deck lists with brief commentary and equally brief replies. On the other hand, it's seldom that I see a clearly casual deck treated with the same devotion that one would normally give a competetive deck. When I tried posting a thorough discussion about a casual deck, Pet Cemetery, the deck generated little discussion, despite having a lot of material from which to branch out. Certainly, I've not felt encouraged to try generating more such discussions.

Now, perhaps I'm not the prime target audience for this site. Certainly, my approach to deck building (even casually) tends to fall closer to the competetive attitude than to the casual attitude. Any site, however, can generate lackluster commentary -- and many of them without the unsophisticated stigma associated with a site that supports only casual play. In my opinion, a serious drive by the members of the CPA to encourage serious discussion of the decks posted here could go a long way toward reviving the site.
 
J

jorael

Guest
@ Ephraim: you weren't just posting a deck, it already had discussion included. It was a briliant post, but what can anyone comment if you fine-tuned it completely? I agree that good discussion about casual ideas should happen. It does happen, but some more couldn't hurt.


I guess a bit more activity (more discussion and more users) would certainly be great. I learned of this forum just recently and I really like it. I mentioned it to some of my fellow players, but only Limited signed up until now.

Would some kind of promotion workto attract more people? If yes, should it be done?
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
KJ: No kidding. :(

Ephraim: The two people who would have helped you most in your type of complaint, Mikeymike and Capt. Caveman, don't seem to be coming around as often/anymore. It's too bad...
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
Having worked on more than my share of single-lined BBS's in the past I know that one thing is consistent w/ them: lulls. Some times the activity is so intense that you have to log on two or three times a day to keep up and sometimes you only need to check it out a couple times a week. The usual reaction of the administrators is usually ride it out or CHANGE EVERYTHING. Usually the latter options will bring in a few new users and some increase to activity - for a while. Also, it invites in some unknown elements that could actually do more harm than good.

I could cite some examples on some things that actually helped some of the boards and then for each one of them, I can cite five that have actually killed them. I think that as long as Magic exists this site will be fine. we still have activity every day. It's not like you can logon after 24 hours and find nothing new.

I suppose we could start adding front page articles about other CCG's on the front as well as video games and we could even seek out corporate sponsorship again (the horror. the horror. ) but I feel that the site would lose its "feel". I guess I'm too much a creature of comfort. I like things the way they are and feel that we're just fine right now...

...perhaps what we could use is more people trying to plug the site every chance they get. If you go to a local tourney and find someone that looks like they prefer casual to tier one play suggest us (the site is easy to remember). When buying cards ask the seller if they wouldn't mind plugging us. I would suggest plugging it on MTGO, but they frown on that (they made me remove my URL from my profile :( ).

-Ferret

"Just because we're not as busy as we were back in 2000 doesn't mean we're dead..."
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Exactly how is a "lull" defined though? We haven't had a good bit of activity since... 2000. I can tell you, coming on daily, that with an exception of one or two threads, not total site activity, that I would not be missing much if I started checking either once a week or even monthly (heck, train would be a good one to ask for that).

If the site had lulls within a year or so, with a month of activity and then a month of downtime or something like that, then I would agree with you that there's no need to worry. But that's not what's happening - it spreads over years to the point of concern.

Even Ed said this last summer when we were thinking about doing changes. I don't know how often he checks the site, but he probably has access to all sorts of stats to determine this.
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
Well, let's see: I haven't been on in two days (internet center's been busy), but when I logged on today I saw three new articles and TONS of activity in the forums... what kind of activity are you looking for? Eight articles a day that no one has time to read? Dozens of threads that have so much activity that it overwhelms potentially new users? I've seen sites that have that kind of activity. When you filter through most of the chaff you still five or six dominant users and a lot of people that post maybe 20-30 times and then vanish.

I think it's fine. Seriously, what is it that you want? Expanding to other games that will get hardly any coverage? Talking about flash-in-the-pan video games that will become dead links after everyone grows bored w/ them? Paper and Pencil RPG support (actually, I kind of like that idea)?

-Ferret

"And, for the love of all that is good in this world, please don't say MMORPG support!"
 
R

Reverend Love

Guest
This is absolutely the small town vs. big city envy thread.

But Pa, thays gots vidier game threads at the Brainburst.
Does anyone here actually want to the deal with the mongoloids that would flock here IF this site grew in prominence?
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Originally posted by Reverend Love
Does anyone here actually want to the deal with the mongoloids that would flock here IF this site grew in prominence?
Not I, said the Oversoul.

Anyway, I think we're pretty stable.
 
N

Notepad

Guest
I'm with Ferret and Oversoul and the Rev on this one. It would be nice to be bigger, but once ya think about it, we have it real nice here.

Don' need tem fancy vidier games, anywho!
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Heh, you may have seen 3 new articles in two days, but let's look at the history of front page updates for the past 2 months... pretty sporadic, eh? KJ's article is just monthly and SeFRo just happens to be starting up again. Of those, Jolrael (with help from Limited) are fresh new writers.

Thread activity? I'm not sure what you mean by "tons"; tons of replies in the same five or six threads in General. Decks is pretty stagnant, only about one or two new threads a day, if that. And those are the two areas that should be "heavy-hit". Case in point: There's only one thread in Decks that got replies from when I logged off yesterday at 3:10 PM EST to now, 7:15 AM EST. 5 new replies. No new Deck threads. And if you look at the times of threads yesterday, the next active thread had a reply at 9:15 AM EST. That's pretty much the 6 hours of nothing between 9 and 3 when I logged off. Not too impressive.

Active users? Again, it's the same 10 or so that's always been on. Jolrael and Limited are the latest new guys and to be honest, the ones keeping Decks going (although CasualOblivion has shown up again). It also appears DUke is back in Magic. Is 10 users indicative of a healthy Magic site? I don't think so, but it appears I'm in the minority. :)

Who would we gain if we expanded the focus of the site? I would have said Rando but not sure if he's still interested. I'd have to check the other thread from last summer to see who else popped back in to have a vote but didn't stay.

Here's what I consider an active site: at least one new article up on the front page, constant. None of this "stop and go" stuff. And frankly, yes, I'd like to see dozens of new threads, tossing around deck ideas and whatnot. You seemed to have a problem when train showed up over Thanksgiving and made a whole bunch of replies to "old" threads, a lot in Decks, but most of them offered some more ideas. And I don't think we're gathering new users right now with the dearth of threads we have now, so "overwhelming them" shouldn't be too much of a concern right now. And I'd like to see more fresh faces that stay.

We may have it nice here and I'll go with the majority, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have problems. Let's not get blinded by complacency...
 
J

jorael

Guest
Actually, the name is Jorael. Magic player seem to be the only one who put a -L- in :)

Limited and I want to post an edition of Making It Work about every two weeks. We both play together and like weird deck themes and combos and CPA seems a good place for articles about that.

We both hope a more regular flow of magic content (our stuff and that of others) will bring some more players to this site. It's a good place, but some more active visitors would make it better, IMO.

Is it an idea to let CPA be known a bit more? Be it by links, search engines, or whatever else that is possible.
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
My bad. I thought I didn't put an "L" in it when I first posted your article on the front page but I guess I mixed it around.

And your articles are definitely welcome :)

As far as I know, there aren't any active plans to make the site more known via search engines or whatever. Just by people who visit other forums and spread the word that way (either posting about it or putting the link in their sig).
 
R

Reverend Love

Guest
Finding the CPA isn't exactly the easy.

Jethro Tull's accent is god awfully pretentious and annoying...sorry...listening to some Tull MP3s.

Me:
Jethro, no one cares about your "tall albums". Shut up and start playing your flute.
Me, if I were Jethro Tull:

Silence yer pie hole colonist. I'm rich and eccentric! I'll speak any damn way I want!
Me, as me again:

:mad:
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
It's kind of a catch-22. We're not well-known because we don't do anything to make ourselves well-known.

orgg's interviews with Richard Garfield and Mark Rosewater back in the first year made a bit of a splash (I think) but no one really stayed. Same thing with MTGNews a bit after; we got a whole influx of people but currently DUke is the only one still here (others from that group I think was Rando, Whimsical, and Purple_Jester).
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
You're right. It is a catch-22. In order for our site to become huge we would need advertising. In order to get advertising, we'd have to either get lots of money (on top of the dough that Ed shells out each month to keep the site up) or corporate sponsorship. However, what corporation would want to back a site that has zero profit potential? We don't encourage the sale of more product and even though many of us enjoy sanctionned events we don't exactly push people to go to them - kind of the opposite of what we were created around.

Believe it or not, I've thought long and hard about what you're saying and the potential consequences of it. I thought that a site w/ constant activity from huge numbers of users would be fantastic, but what would be the end result?

You know, this reminds me of two places I used to drink coffee. One was a Gloria Jeans at a mall close to my house and the other was a local coffee house close to a Jr. College (also close to my house). I could get larger cups of joe for less at the large chain store and it wasn't that bad, but the servers (baristas?) were always changing and I felt really uncomfortable going to the mall (I have a problem w/ crowds). When I went to the coffeehouse I'd pay a little more for the specialty coffees (the regular house blends were 2/$1), but I could sit there and chat w/ the regulars and enjoy myself for hours. I have long since moved from that area, but I heard the coffeehouse was bought by Starbucks and now I refuse to go within 50 feet of it...

...I guess, that's how I feel about this site...It's small, comfortable, and I know who's here.

-Ferret

"...I still think that we should ask WotC to provide a link to us from their site...what harm could it do?"
 
M

Mikeymike

Guest
Originally posted by Spiderman
Ephraim: The two people who would have helped you most in your type of complaint, Mikeymike and Capt. Caveman, don't seem to be coming around as often/anymore. It's too bad... [/B]
I've got catching up to do....
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Ferret: I know, I agree with you. This has that "coffeehouse" feel and is undoubtable one of the draws for the few that come here and if you're not looking for tourney advice all the time. And I feel sort of hypocritical in that I'm kinda advocating for change (at least I feel like I am) but I really can't devote the time to make such happen (such as take over the coding and maintenence of the website or even advertising, even if its word of mouth). I guess I'm just staking out the position in case someone comes along who does want the change and can do something about it :)

I do know I like other games and would like to talk about them, and I think other people do too but feel restricted with the "Magic emphasis" on the site. Yeah, I know there's the Other Gaming section, but it doesn't attract the attention you'd think it would.

I guess all I'm saying is that the coffeehouse feel is fine for the small amount of users we have, but don't let it fool you into thinking this place is "hopping" for Magic.
 
N

Notepad

Guest
Is there anything we could do, without dropping a fat wad of cash, that can help increase attention for this site? I'm not saying make us an overnight SCG, but maybe get a little blood flowing in these dusty veins?

The way I see it, we have three huge problems:
1-Lack of connection (linkage, mainly) with the biggies in the community. This hurts us because how can people come here if they don't know who we are?

2-Lack of the hype content the readers of other sites crave. No, not general gaming. We miss out because most of the readers are hyper-gratification scumbags who want nothing but a quick win next weekend. We don't cover tournaments here, and when we do, its insufficient to nearly guarantee a prize at so much as a FNM. Those who do know of this place likely gloss over the front page, dismissing us because we don't stroke their pleasure zone the way Brainburst and SCG do.

3-Stop and Go. Spidey said it best. Even IF someone manages to find this site, and find stuff they like...well, it is sporadic. This is my own huge writing vice, and the vice of anyone else who writes. Its hard to come up with new stuff all the time, or to keep discussing aspects of the same damned coin every month. Every week is even harder! That's where tourney sites shine: They have constantly changing evironments, where you can write about four cards changing in your deck idea and make it a whole other article because people will read a whole new article about the same damned deck, week after week. Basically, they do original stuff, but they can also get away with the slutty rehash when they're dry on ideas. Forget payment, contests, or whatever. It comes down to stability. If we can't keep our readers happy and coming back for more, we lose them. Plain and simple.

=========
So....

Really hard to fix 1. Because of the other two, why would people link to us? We could try grassrooting, by hosting tournaments in real life, or on MTGO, sponsored by the more generous players. Even then, we'll likely never put up a prize of like "POWER NINE OMFG!!!!!1!!!1one" I can dig up a few rares. Possibly good ones. But who's gonna really care even if generous players from here suffered brain damage and donated foil Ravager and stuff? Still, hosting our own tournaments at events or online might just help. Casual formats, obviously. Other than getting PR through hosting casual events, its really hard becuase it would require some actual money.

Number 2 I think is the hardest of all. We will never be a Pro Tour Winner Overnight content site. No one is, but others do a real good job of *pretending* they are. They help you win, yes, but they fake your ego and stroke you real good, thinking you're gonna be the next Budde or Zvi or whatnot. You ain't. I think we're too honest for that type of scumbaggery, anyway. To compound that, the atmosphere and reason for this site is casual play. If we go pro (as unlikely as that is), we lose the whole reason for the site.

Number 3 is pretty easy to fix, but it goes with the other two sort of feeding a vicious loop. I can tell your personally I get dry on ideas, or just get bored with the game and/or with writing. I need breaks. I'll bet its the same with the other Stop & Go writers. We need a more active front page. Now here is how other sites have solved it (and I've suggested this before!)...forum linkage! Our writing (those few of us who write) can't be bothered to constantly come up with new casual stuff to spin into articles. But, the forums are always abuzz with at *least* one topic a week that can make it to the front page, ala Brainbust and SCG's style.

Here are some threads I'd suggest linking:
-Blue sucks in multiplayer (A nice topic to discuss!)
-Ninja abuse (Another nice topic. Get people rolling with their ideas on this new mechanic)
-Buying Basic Sets (A trusty fluffer of a rehash topic, but it got started, and has some talk)
-BOK Previes (People love to give their thoughts on new shiznit. This thread is absolute proof)

And that's just off the top of my head of threads from this or last week. With the right spin, you can make nearly any of the other active game-related threads into a "Whoa! Did you see this!? You HAVE to come discuss it!" hype the way SCG and BB do.
 
J

jorael

Guest
I agree that CPA isn't know enough in the magic community. Even more important: there are a lot of players that don't give a OINK about tournament reports and metagames. The kind of players that only play casual. That's even probably the majority of magic players. They are the ones that would enjoy this site and it's forum (just as it is right now!).

I go here for casual play advice and inspiration. That is the main quality of CPA and it shouldn't change. There is no need to start another tournament-rumor site. That need is already fulfilled. Posting discussions on the front-page is a good idea, however.

My guess is that enough players out there would enjoy this site, but they don't know about it. That should be fixed!
 
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