Spellweaver Helix: Let's discuss

R

Rooser

Guest
I was thinking of writing an article exploring the card, but nevermind, let's just share our ideas here.

First point to consider is the Helix can mess around with people's counterspell math. They can counter both spells, but they have to be countered separately. Also, remember that this counts for 2 spells when calculating storm.

Anyway, seems to me there are a number of different approaches to getting use out of the card:

1) Use it for simple redundancy. For example, in a land destruct deck, after you've cast two different LD spells, Weave them together, and now your cheap land destruct turns into Rain of Salts, which will defiitely help you get ahead in the tempo war. Or you could weave a useful boardsweeper with a cheap spell, prefereably one that draws cards. Wrath of God + Sleight of Hand, for example. Now you've got 8 WoGs, and all your WoGs cantrip.

2) Use it a combo piece for "sorcery reanimation." By that I mean dump an overpriced but very powerful sorcery into your graveyard along with a cheap but useable sorcery, and then play your expensive bomb for cheap. This is a pretty fun approach to the card. The problem is that its technically a 4-card combo just to play your expensive sorcery for cheap. This can be as impratical as just casting the overpriced-but-powerful sorcery in the first place. Still, I have two ideas which I think have potential:

* Weave Crush of Wurms with either Roar of the Wurm or Deep Analysis. You can easily set this up with Quiet Speculation, putting the Crush and two copies of the other into your graveyard, making them primed for weaving AND casting. I think this has great potential, but I've yet to test it.

* Weave Decree of Pain with something. Decree can reliably pitch itself, since it cylces. Once you weave it with a simple cheap sorcery, say burn or discard, you can manage to pop the spell off three times for cheap, thus destroying a lot of creatures and drawing a lot of cards.

3) Use it for Recursion. If you play it right, you can use this to help you cast the same power card an indefinite number of times. There are a number of way to try this.

* First, you can weave a self-recursive card. Hammer is the best choice here, (And a tip of the hat to the fellow who already pointed it out in his tourney report). Problem with hammer is it makes you commit to red pretty hard.

*You can use cards whose effect is to bring cards from the graveyard to your hand. Elven Cache or, If you can manage it, Restock, are good ways to do this. Now you can keep bringing back the copies of your weave spells, and thus play them over and over.

* Easier but not as powerful would be to use a sorcery which put cards from your graveyard back into your library. Dwell on the Past would be good for the job, but there are other options.

Anyway, share your combo ideas!
 
H

Hetemti

Guest
Helix is on my list of uses for Grim Reminder. It becomes "2B, play a spell that doesn't suck with BB buyback next upkeep." It's cumbersome, but might be worth it.

It's probably better than my thoughts of Remider/Pyromancy/Thran Turbine to get a Hammer of Bogardan each turn for BB.
 
S

Seeker of Truth

Guest
Excellent! I've been looking for a way to abuse this card!

How about Catalog and Zombify? Can you use Catalog to dump a card into the graveyard and then bring it back with Zombify?

I like that Hammer of Bogardan combo. It would combo nicely with a lot of different things, maybe Trash for Treasure or Molten Rain?

I think that LD combo is good, especially if you can get it going quickly. Perhaps a U/R deck using cards like Read the Runes to dump sorceries into the graveyard and Fabricates to get the Helix? Then imprint Misguided Rage and Molten Rain, or maybe Demolish instead to handle potential artifacts.
 
T

train

Guest
Duress, hymn to tourach or mind sludge or persecute...

Diabolic tutor, merchant scroll

animal magnetism, biorythm

searing flesh, syphon soul...

weird harvest, head games...

dragon storm - land destruct

creeping mold, show and tell...

channel, drain power

there's tons of things...
 
N

NorrYtt

Guest
I'm trying to Weave Revive and something else like Call of the Herd or Creeping Mold. I read a guy's tourney report on StarCityGames that Weaved Hammer of Bogardan and Diabolic Tutor. The Tutor gets the Helix, which Weaves the Tutor...it's really clean that way.
 
R

Rooser

Guest
Grim Reminder would be a great idea, Hetemi, except Grim Reminder is an instant.

I like the dragonstorm idea.
 
R

Reverend Love

Guest
Great post Rooser. At first glance I shrugged this card off..maybe I should given it further thought.

Initially imprinting things like Book Burning, Browbeat and Breaking point come to mind. Browbeat and Breakingpoint being the obvious choices. While they could take the pain any player worth their salt would quickly realize trouble is coming their way soon.

Or what about imprinting tutors? Run;

4 Diabolic Tutors
4 Burning Wish

If you got this up and running your opponent would be hard pressed to pose a threat you couldn't quickly and efficiently nullify.

But where I really see this card shining is with card drawing. Deep Analysis, Concentrate, Library of Lat-Nam <-- stupid but fun, Omen, Rush of Knowledge, etc.

I'm sure there's something really depraved waiting to be unleashed.
 
H

Hetemti

Guest
Would you or would you not have to blow up one of your lands if you weaved two LDs and your opponent had one land?
 
H

Hetemti

Guest
"May" is a spiffy word. I should trade for one or two. My roommate has one up for grabs, and I probably should've drafted one yesterday...alas, that Warhammer coërced me.

I can't help but wonder if one of the more amusing/abusing plays wouldn't be Hammer of Bogardan/Time {Walk/Warp}. Hammer for three, free turn. Hammer for three, free turn. ... had enough yet or shall I pummel you once more?
 
H

Hetemti

Guest
*ker-Pummel*

(...why O why didn't I get that $50 Time Walk...oh yeah, I'm a dummy.)
 
S

Seeker of Truth

Guest
Sounds like a deck list is forthcoming...

What about something with flashback, like Firebolt? Combo'd with Time Walk/Warp/Stretch can at least make for two free turns (more if you Helixed Time Stretch).

Of course, quick card drawing/discard is critical. Careful Study, Thirst for Knowledge, Accumulated Knowledge, etc.

What is the kill card? I guess if it is Hammer of Bogardan, that's an infinite combo, but if it doesn't come out, is there another way to win?
 
M

mythosx

Guest
did any one suggest lab rats yet? it has buy back so the goodness keeps coming back... get a rat token and do something else mean...like overrun
 
T

train

Guest
Lab Rats is awesome... Ran them in Tempest Block!!!...

Still run them in MP when running Mono-black - there's no better way to keep making creatures...

Especially with a Death Match in play!
 
R

Rooser

Guest
I think I did it. I found the card worth recursing on the Spellweaver:

Denying Wind.

Yeee-haw is that sexy.
 
T

train

Guest
it may not feel optimal because it is so dependent on those spells being played...

but there's nothing that says you can't make it optimal by recurring said spells - and there's a lot of ways to do that...;)
 
M

Master Shake

Guest
The real Wave combo is Crush of Wurms with Chatter of the Squirel (I probably spelled that wrong.)

Turn one: Island, Brainstorm
Turn two: Forest, Quite Speculation - fetch 2 Chatter 1 Crush
Turn three: Land, Spellweaver Helix - Imprint 1 Chatter, 1 Crush
Turn four: Flashback 2nd Chatter. get a 1/1 and 3 6/6s
Turn five: Wrath of God

It is a great deck... try it.
 
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