Discussion in 'Rules Questions' started by jcredberry, Oct 7, 2002.

  1. jcredberry Gochan Warlord

    I have two Sparksmith in play and my opponent has a 4/4 creature. I tap both Sparksmiths to deal 4 point of damage to my opponent's creature. He, in response, plays Repulse to one of my Sparksmiths. How many points of damage will receive my opponent's creature??? Two or Four... I was pretty sure it was two until I read this rule:

    413.2f If an effect requires information from the game (such as the number of creatures in play), the answer is determined when the effect is applied. The effect uses the current information of a specific permanent if that permanent is still in play, or of a specific card in the stated zone; otherwise, the effect uses the last known information the card or permanent had before leaving that zone. The exception is that static abilities can’t use last known information; see rule 412.5. If the ability text states that a permanent does something, it’s the permanent as it exists (or most recently existed) that does it, not the ability.

    Thanx in advance for your help...
  2. Jigglypuff Big Cute Pink Thing

    Your opponent's creature will receive 2 damage, one from each Sparksmith's ability. When the abilities resolve, it will look at the number of Goblins currently in play (one) and deal that much damage.

    EDIT: "Last known information" doesn't apply to how much damage is dealt because the ability does not look at a specific permanent or card.

    (- Steve -)
  3. EricBess Active Member

    Right. Contrast this to something like damage based on the power of a creature. If that creature isn't around when the ability resolves, it technically don't have a power. But, that's when you use last known information.

    An example would be Pandemonium with a creature that is killed before Pandemonium resolves.
  4. Spiderman CPA Man in Tights, Dopey Administrative Assistant

    That's actually the wrong rule, if I understand that Sparksmith is simply dealing damage (I assume it's Onslaught since it's not in crystalkeep yet). The rule is you can remove the source of the effect, but not the effect itself once it's on the stack. So it'll still take four points of damage.

    Edit after looking: Oh, it's based on the number of creatures in play. I thought it was just like a Tim effect or something.

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