Riptide Mangler in a G/U beatdown deck

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Mikeymike

Guest
Riptide Mangler
Creature - Beast
1U LE(R)
{1}{U}: Change ~this~'s power to target creature's power. (It doesn't change back at end of turn)
0/3

I figure this could be in either the single card or deck section.

I really like this little guy, he's got the potential for sorts of combat tricks. One card in particular I was thinking about running with him is Might of Oaks, as 4UG can make him a surprise 14/3. With a Rancor on him he can also continously grow - depending on how much mana you've got.

Partial decklist
4 Riptide Manglers
4 Xantid Swarm (helps me get my combat tricks through)
4 Gaea's Skyfolk
4 of something efficient with evasion

Boosting
4 Might of Oaks
4 Rancor
1 Berserk

Other
1 Regrowth
1 Ancestral Recall
3 Naturalize (because you have to in my group)

Lands - 19-22

Other cards I am considering in some way:
One with Nature (and another creature w/ evasion it could enchant)
Forgotten Ancient (maybe)
Revive (worth it?)
Gaea's Embrace
Elephant Guide
That Invasion Critter enchantment that gives landwalk and draws a card.

What are other ways to gain card advantage?
What efficient removal in here?
 
R

Rooser

Guest
You know, Beserk isn't restricted anymore. Also, I don't think his ability quite works the way you think it does, unless I'm reading you wrong. His power will still change back if it's pumped up by say, Might of Oaks. However, if you Might of Oaks a Gaea's Skyfolk for example, making it a 9/9 until end of turn, and activate the mangler's ability, the mangler becomes a 9/3 and stays a 9/3.
 
M

Mikeymike

Guest
I'm working on getting more Berserks as I type. I had a second CE one that I traded away when it was still restricted, oh well.

Yeah, I think you're right about the Mangler/Might Rooser. My thinking was that the Mangler becomes a 7/10 - activates his ability making him a 7 power, but then he gets the +7/+7 on top of it.

However, if the Might resolves, I think his ability resets it to 7 power.

Another question for you - if I give him +7/+7, and then used his ability - would he stay a 7/3 or would he lose the 7 power at EOT?

Good call on the Skyfolk though, that's a pretty cool effect as well.


But let's say he had continuous pump on him - like the Rancor. That would work
0/3 with +2/0 - uses his ability, becomes a 2/3 with +2/0
2/3 with +2/0 - uses his ability, becomes a 4/3 with +2/0
That's kind of cool.
 
R

Rooser

Guest
Oh, I see what you're saying with the rancor. That might actually work. And with the MoO it would probably let you at least keep its 7 power if it targeted itself, I never though of that.

Yeah, looks like there might be some fun possibilities with this guy after all. I judged him too quickly. We'd be wise to check the rulings, however.
 
R

Rooser

Guest
Aww, man. The rules are all funny for effects that set power and toughness. There's timestamp issues that result in the 'set power equal to power of target creature' being continuously applied after the rancor. If you did that, it would stay a 2/3. However, if you returned the rancor to your hand it would still be a 2/3, and then of you recast the rancor it's timestamp would be later and it would become a 4/3.

The rules on that stuff are really weird; I'm not sure what to think of them.
 
M

Mikeymike

Guest
- It reads the current power of the creature, including counters and effects. [D'Angelo 2003/02/01]
- It sets is own power using an effect, so once this is used, adding power modifying counters to it will not do anything. See Rule K.10.Ruling.1 for details. [Legions FAQ 2003/01/23]
- Any power/toughness changing enchantments or effects on this card prior to using its ability will be overridden when the ability resolves. This effect completely covers all previous effects.

Well crap, that ruins just about all my stupid little combos. How is it possible that his ability would change the continuous effect of an enchantment? That seems to defy logic...at least my skewed version of it.
 
T

train

Guest
Comp.Rules - 418.5a The values of an object’s characteristics are determined by starting with the actual object, then applying copy effects (see rule 503, “Copying Spells and Abilities”), then applying text-changing effects, then applying continuous effects generated by characteristic-setting abilities, then applying continuous effects generated by type-changing abilities, then applying any power or toughness changes due to counters, and then applying all other continuous effects.
Example: A player plays an artifact’s ability that reads “{o2}: This permanent becomes a 3/2 artifact creature until end of turn.” Later in the turn, the artifact creature is affected by an ability that reads “Target creature becomes 0/2 until end of turn.” At this point, playing the ability of the artifact again won’t do anything, because the type-changing ability must be applied before the continuous effect that just changes power and toughness. The artifact creature remains 0/2.
1. Start with Actual Object.
2. Apply copy effects(in this case, none really)
3. Apply text changing effects.
4. Apply continuous effects generated by type-changing abilities
5. then apply power toughness changes due to counters.
6. Then apply all other continuous effects.

So you start with mangler and give it +7/+7 making it a 7/10.
*Note, the might has already applied, and will not re-apply... that would be like limited prevention shields doing re-applying themselves after being used...
Use mangler's ability making it's power a permanent 7, toughness still 10 - mangler is a 7/10(including might's effect...)
EoT - the might's ability wears off, and the mangler becomes a 7/3... - Bolt bait;)

now with rancor - if you sac-rancor and keep doing it, then yes you can build it's power up..

1st rancor - 2/3,
sac rancor, replay, re-tap 4/3
and so on...

;)
 
N

Nightstalkers

Guest
its a good idea, now to try it in a tourney :)

Rooser, Mindy is Almindhra


get it? Almindyhra
 
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